Can one post about a Large Goldie Here

[OttawaPonder]

I had a neighbor last year - call me up - to clean out and remove an old prefab pond. They had just purchased the house that winter and did not want the pond. When the weather changed and one could play out side - I went up and helped remove it.

They gave me the fish -air pump - nets and food - that came with the pond and the house.

Last summer I put them in my out door pond 1,800 or so gals.
When Fall came I brought them in doors to my QT and extra tank set up.

This pass week I noticed one of the larger Orange Gold Fish was changing colors. Or I hope that is all it is!!!!!????????

Each scale like individual pixels was charging in a very short time.
About 75 to 80% of the fish has gone from Orange to a dark almost black color.

Can this merely be - just color change?
Or is there something going on I should be concerned about?

And if so - what do I look for and what do I do?

If this helps:
About a week to a week and a half before this started - or I noticed it - I had them on different food for ten days. Now they are back on the food I gave them all last year and this winter.

BTW - I see the same change in another Orange Goldie... Last night to today - lots of change....

[Jackie Ramo]

Goldies like koi change colours. Although it is normally from black to gold and from gold to white has been my experience. Admittedly my experience with goldies is limited. If it was on the fins I'd worrry it was ammonia burn but it sounds like colour change from your description. I doubt it was the food but am not sure.

[OttawaPonder]

Jackie - it started off as small spots on some scales - not all..

As it is growing it gets larger on each scale and it takes over more scales too.

On the top fin I had noticed it walk its way up to the entire tip of the fin.

I noticed today that is is now working its way out from the body - through the middle of the tail fin..

One of the other fish started showing early signs of the same - last night.
Today it has almost doubled... and is much more noticeable.

If this is of any help to anyone...

I hate to loss these fish - after Lossing Spot and Flash this year - the only Koi I had.

BTW here is some more info and the readings I had..

About 180 gals of water - between two 100 gal stock tanks.
Well water - no chlorine

Ammonia .25 or a little under

NitrIte 0

Hardness 120

Alkalinity 300

PH 8.4

NitrAte about 60 (the color chart reads 40 - then 80 MRS says color is inbetween)

Temp is 74

And I have an 8 watt UV

[OttawaPonder]

I am not sure if I mentioned it or not. And I have an up date any ways - so I thought I do it all at once. LOL

Earleir today I added some Amquel Plus (about 12 hours ago now)

About an hour ago I added some Stress Coat....

I have lots of air and the filter is still going. BTW I cleaned the filter less then a week ago...

I will check or test the readings tomorrow morning.

[Jackie Ramo]

Tony, please don't start panicing and dumping all kinds of stuff into the water. This is never the answer.

How are the fish behaving, a 0.25 reading is something they can deal with and it will not affect their colour. The perfect reading is 0 for ammonia but 0.25 is not a panic situation.

Other than the colour change, what is wrong with the fish?

[Terri]

Quick note here as I'm off to the airport this a.m.

Colour change happens throughout a goldfishes life, some more so than other's depending on genetics. Don't sweat it.

Only cause for consern would be if the fish begins to look very thin but is stil eating... there is a bacteria, name escapes me atm, that can cause the upper skin layer to turn black, but it also appears slightly raised and along with this there are other visible symptoms... fin rot, sunken eyes, etc. This happens with prolonged exposer to high ammonia levels typically.

Relax Tony, does't sound like the gf are unhealthy. Get that WQ in check though ;-)

Gotta run....

[OttawaPonder]

Tony, please don't start panicing and dumping all kinds of stuff into the water. This is never the answer.

How are the fish behaving, a 0.25 reading is something they can deal with and it will not affect their colour. The perfect reading is 0 for ammonia but 0.25 is not a panic situation.

Other than the colour change, what is wrong with the fish?

Jackie, in another forum before I had posted the readings - someone thought it might of been caused by Ammonia burn or something else that I can not recall right now..

Plus with the NitrAte up there around 60 - I and the local fish store thought it would not hurt to add in the Amquel Plus... And for safe measure - some 11 to alomst 12 hours later I added in some stress coat...

That is all I have done...

BTW - I have done a few readings - of our water - before it ever made it to any of my ponds and right from the well it read 1.0 Ammonia.. So I guess .25 after what filtraion I have is not all that bad..

And it was about a week and half ago - that I lost 30 plus precent of the water and I ended up cleaning the SC and filter - then topping off their water. Then this problem of the odd dark coloring shows up...

[Jackie Ramo]

Although things can be connected it is not necessarily so although the stress may have caused the colour change.

The important questions are: how are the fish acting, is there any redness, or open sores, is every one eating?

[OttawaPonder]

They are all eating... and a day after the Amquel Plus - they all seem to be swimming around a lot more... I little faster and with more joy in their step :lol: oh wait - do fish walk and take steps - me thinks not LOL

At one point during all this - one of the larger Orange Goldies would hang at the bottom in one place. Not come up for any food for about two days...

Not to sure if this is or was the same one that now has the dark coloring going on..

However I do know the one that has the most coloring NOW - use to float with it's top fin and most of the middle top area of its body out of the water. Then from time to time I catch it leaning to one side - and always the same side. Again this was while it was just floating at the top of the water and no real movement.

[Terri]

I would think that their behaviour was due to the level of ammonia in the water for such a period of time. With your well water having ammonia high atm you will may need to continue the Amquel Plus addition. Have you added any extra air - air stones and pump? This will also help.

Ammonia burn tends to the fins tends to look like milk white along the fins edge with a bit of viening through the fins. On the body it can appear as 'black spots' or 'scabs', these are random over the body.

[Jackie Ramo]

Long term water quality problems even at a low level such as yours does affect the fish. Check your source water for NitrAtes, and every other test you have.

How often are you doing water changes? Please post today's test results

[Jackie Ramo]

morning Terri, see we were posting at the same time :)

[OttawaPonder]

At the tone the time will be 12:10 PM on SAT> Feb. 18, 2006 (edit - silly me it was not Sunday - yet - today is sunday LOL)

Up date - even though all the fish are swimming around a lot more then before the Amquel Plus - all the readings are the same as the last time.

I do know that with some test kits - even though the Amquel Plus does block the "Ammonia" - it will still read on the test strip...

Not so sure if NitrAte does the same or not.

Terri, I have always had a 12" stone in the main tank... I guess I could take the air pump off the larger in door pond for a while - but I rather not - as they too could use all the air they can get...

[Jackie Ramo]

Tony the strip tests are not very accurate. They are fine for a quick daily check but if something is wrong one needs to know the exact numbers and drop kits are the ones to use.

The amquel plus should solve the problem and it is very hard to overdose, almost impossible so adding a little extra would not hurt.

[OttawaPonder]

I know when fish are sick - they are also under stress - and best not to move them to much..

However with the Mrs not able to go down and then back up two levels/floors of stairs I took the two worse fish up to her.

Mrs thinks what ever it is - looks like velvet only in the area from the top of it's head to the top fin...

What is this?? Any concenrs??? IF so what to do????

Thanks,

[Terri]

Well, that could be a couple different things, or combo.

Ammonia and/or NitrIte - can and will cause excess mucus coat that will appear milky... especially prolonged exposer. Fix the water quality and poof it goes away.

Salt - can and will a certian levels milk up the slime coat.

Both the above are considered 'irritants', anything that bugs a fish generally shows in the mucus coating first, this can also include chemicals and water conditioners/dechlors.

Velvet(oodidum) doesn't usually effect goldfish but anything can happen. If you shine a bright light on the area it should have a golden or yellow hue, this is an indicator it is velvet. Formalin + MG will clear it quick, best as a bath.

Costia tends to give a slight milky appearance to the slime coat, this is the first noticable indicator a fish has costia... but it's not easy to spot. By the time you really notice this symptom fins are usually affected and the fish is off food. Costia comes on quick and strong and wastes no time killing. Formalin + MG is a quick fix but salt at 0.6% over several days will knock it back... expecially with 2 to 3 mild doses of PP.

Having done a scrape and looking under a scope would really help determine what is happening... and with out other 'symptoms' it's hard to narrow anything down.

Plus with the NitrAte up there around 60 Not much to be concerned with, not great but not horrible. NitrAte needs to be well above 100 to do much of anything to fish... so they say. But in any case, all the more reason to add more air... TT of sorts would help as well all the way around.

I realize you are now battling ammonia in your well water, but until this water quality issue can be resolved the fish are left to deal with it and some don't deal to well.

[Jackie Ramo]

How about an update on the fish Tony?