Iodized and Other Salt Tales

[Werner]

Iodized salt--- Will not, contrary to popular myth, affect your fish health. Iodized table salt in the USA contains 77 milligrams of potassium iodide per kilogram of table salt. That means the potassium iodide content of table salt is only 0.0077%, or 77 parts per million in the salt. Then when, lets say, 0.3 weight % table salt is added to a pond, the potassium iodide content of the pond will be 0.003 times 0.0077%, or 0.000023%, or only 0.23 ppm. In the MSDS for aquatic toxicity of potassium iodide, the EC50 for shellfish is given as 2.7 mg or 2.7 ppm, the EC50 for protozoa is given as above 40 mg/l or over 40 ppm. There is no apparent reason to give an aquatic toxicity for potassium iodide for fish, since it apparently does not hurt them. The aquarium hobby, where this myth probably came from, frowns on the use of table or iodized salt due to the Iodine additive clouding the water, something you will never notice in a pond.
This percentage (0.3%)is not harmful to most, except floating, plants, but will retard their growth. You can safely double the dosage .06% 50 lbs to 1000 gallons, but any plant should be removed for the duration of the treatment. Bear in mind that the only way to remove salt is by water changes, it will never evaporate or otherwise disappear.

Other Additives---Stay away from any other additives, i.e. yellow prussiate of soda, they will harm your fish.

[Busy B]

Isn't iodine supposed to be good for us?

What's EC50?

*waving at ya Werner-glad you've signed up!*

[Terri]

Nice useful information Werner, thank you for posting :grin:

You're most definately right, the misconseption of using salt with iodine did come from the aquarium hobby... something that only in the last 5 years has been shot down as a myth.

[Jackie Ramo]

Welcome Werner!!

Good information, thanks for sharing. Yes there are a lot of myths about this hobby that started with tanks. The one inch per gallon one springs to mind. :roll:

[Jojopotato]

Busy Iodine keeps you from getting that big goiter thingy in your neck/throat area..

Hey Werner good to see ya here...

[Dave in Innisfil]

So, does the jury recommend salting the pond after the final water change but before freeze up or not ?

[Jackie Ramo]

Definately not. Salt is a medication and should only be used if there is a reason to use it. It is not a good preventative unless one is treating for nitrItes from an uncycled filter but then it is not really preventing it is protecting.

Dave be sure to continue to test the water during the wiinter. Many folks lose fish do to not enough off gassing or a pH crash. Testing the water gives you a look into what the fish are living in.

[Werner]

Thanks for the welcome y'all
Jackie--I couldn't agree with you more-Salt=Medication
Busy--EC50--Effective Concentration; concentration at which the substance concerned produces a specified effect in 50% of the organisms treated.

[Busy B]

OK...gotcha!

Except...there is no 100 percent effectiveness....guess I'm mostly associating salt with ich...any other 'nisms it attacks? :???:

[Werner]

Busy--Depending on the concentration, salt will attack quite a number of 'isms. I'm sure you're familiar with Fish "Salt Bath" treatment 3.0% (Seawater strenght) will kill a goodly number of parasites.

Ich or Ick parasites can only be killed in their free swimming stage, not while attached to the fish or in their egg cases. At an average temp. of 75 degrees F. it takes 21 days for their eggs to hatch, longer, if the water is cooler. It's therefore imperative that the pond or aquarium be treated for at least 3 weeks, up to 6 weeks, if the water is cool to 55 degrees F, or the treatment will be ineffective.

[Busy B]

what about costia?

[Werner]

Costia can be controlled by salt additions, .3%-.6%, salt baths 3.0%. I have found that fish constantly exposed to salt concentrations will require larger percentages of salt for treatment. I have experimented with salt baths at higher percentages with mixed results. I would not recommend these higher percentages to anyone exept experienced keepers that know what to watch for.

[Busy B]

Same as antibiotics...the more you take the less effective they are?

[Jackie Ramo]

The bacteria and parasites grow and develop in those salt ranges so in order to combat them you need to up the salt levels, sometimes to the point as Werner says, to the danger level for the fish.

Werner, would you use salt for costia? I didn't have much luck with it.

[Werner]

Jackie---Depends on the situation.

If I know that the fish has not been in a constantly salted pond, salt is still the safest, especially if gill damage is suspected or indicated.

Salted pond fish, without gill damage, can be treated with malachite and formalin or potassium permanganate bath, but the medicines must be used with caution as to dosages.

[Jojopotato]

Ok.. So back to the nitrite protection... Jackie you mentioned that salt is used for that, I am at the point right now where my little indoor pond (posted pics a while back) has a high level of nitrite, been doing water changes and added water.. Nitrite is still high and my salt range (after testing) is 24% is this good enough to keep my fish protected until the nitrite levels come down.. I do a water change every three days.. I have been letting the refill water sit in a ten gallon bucket through out those three days.. Then I remove ten gallons and add the refill.. Anything else I should do?

I have a under water pump going with a filter media of gravel and two container filters (for aquariums) running. The pond/aquarium is about 4 weeks old now..

[Jackie Ramo]

JoJo if you salt is 24% your fish are all dead! Sorry but one has to watch the decimal places, don't worry they get me sometimes to. :frisbee: What is the reading on the nirtite, ammonia, and nitrAte. The nitrAte reading will tell us when you are cycling for sure - it is a good thing to see. Also what temp is the water, warmer water cycles faster but fish get hungrier.. are you feeding the little devils???

Salt at 0.1% - 0.15% is all you need to protect from nitrites. If your water is chorinated leaving to to stand really isn't enough, if it is just to make same temp it is fine.

Werner: I have a deep fear of costia, I am sure it almost wiped out my pond a few years ago. Lost most of my fish and salt and PP did nothing but knock it back to return again and again. Nearly filled the pond in that year.

[Werner]

Jackie---

I'm with you on this one.

Costia, once reproducing actively with a downward shift in the fishes health, reproduce at a fantastic rate. At 80degrees F water temperature doubling can take place in as little as 2 1/2 hours. Sex is not needed to reproduce, they simply divide in half. Explosive growth like this is caused by poor water quality, sick fish, stressed fish and overcrowding.

Severe cases, with their symptoms of excess mucus and hyperplasia which help protect the parasites from chemical treatments are best treated with chloramine-t and 2 month or more salt treatments, repeating treatments until improvement.

I've had Costia infestations 4 times in the distant past, that I can remember. Lucky for me, they never got past my off site quarantine, on one shipment I did have to destroy the 56 fish that were left and disinfect the quarantine tank, it just wasn't feasible to continue treating after a 2 month best effort.

JoJo-just like a doting mother :smile: your fish are receiving excellent care and you're receiving great advice from everyone on many boards. Do me a favor though, take a deep breath and enjoy them a little.

[Jackie Ramo]

:smile: Werner, how come when its our pets we worry so much about them... JoJo you are a good fish mom, relax. Cycling filters is no fun but must be done. The only way is time. I figure you are half way there now!

Last time I thought I had costia I used proform C as directed and whatever it was cleared up. I had a few sleepless nights and made hubby check the pond before I'd look Nothing worse than seeing that floater before morning coffee, starts the day off real nasty.

[Busy B]

Thanks for the info Werner...

Jo...do you have airstones running too?

Oh yeah..I think it was in the pond construction forum...Jackie bought a Tetra filter. There's a thread there.

[Jojopotato]

Thanks all... I know I'm getting a bit overbearing.. :lol: :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

JoJo, Busy did just remind me. Pond things are on sale now. I got a really good deal on my tetra filter and its the one I'd prefer over the new models. Easier and better than running two tank filters. Something to think about.

[BonnieIN]

And to think that I fell for the myth..... glad to know that I can use Iodized salt when needed!

[Jackie Ramo]

Bonnie I think we all fell for it at first. Problem is if folks repeat things we often don't really question them. And lets face it, some people just don't like to be questioned about what they are stating as fact. :lol:

[marla]

OK, the place we buy all our fish and pond stuff recommends salting the pond, he said that was our problem last winter and that's why we had fish die in the spring (SAP) We have talked about adding some this fall, so this jury says no? Is there another protection for winter/spring kill, besides hope, I really don't want to loose the koi we got this spring to replace those that died, they have gotten so big, and I'm attached. Also, if you test the water in the winter and find a problem how do you cure it when the pond is all frozen except a minimmal hole???

[Jojopotato]

Well I checked the water again today and the nitrate and nitrite levels are in the safe zone.. Its getting better.. Whoo hooo.. ;)

[Dave in Innisfil]

Marla, our local "pond experts" too remotely diagnosed our spring pondmare as SAP and criticized me for not salting the pond before freeze-up as a preventative measure. These too were the same people who profited from selling me hundreds worth of chemicals to "solve" our problem, and were very eager to try and sell us replacement fish when 99 of 101 perished despite their endorsed chemical bath. We're following Terri and Jackie's advice this year, doing everything we can to let our fish go into winter with as clean a pond and water as possible. Sure, I've stocked up on ammonia binder, just in case. But we've fractioned our fish load, done a proper fall clean up of both plant and fish debris, installed multiple vents and aeriation, promise to regularly check water quality, and will continue to do water changes and top-ups as weather permits. I'm still checking threads for something I might have missed, something I could do now I can't later, and will still keep fingers and toes crossed until next spring. If those I now trust said salt, it'd be in the pond or pondside already.

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, the best protection for your fish over winter is a clean pond. If they had sap last spring then there was some injury that caused it. Sap is a secondary infection taking advantage of something that already happened, whether that be a scrape on a rock, parasite whatever. Sap is deadly and fast acting but if treated as soon as seen is soon cured. Salt would not cure sap IMO. REC at Koivet wrote quite a good article about sap and fungus. worth the read if you find the time. In the article sections off the main page.