New To Hobbie

[luvya2day]

Hi everyone, I am New to hobbie and I am not having good luck so far. Started out wanting a gardenpond with waterfall,plants ,and 3 or 4 koi. My pond is irregular shaped about3500 gallons. I have a pond sweep skimmer with autofill, 4500 gph submersable pump, large biofalls filter. i built a cave for shade and hiding and also purchased a screened one. purchased 4 water hycenths, 1 cluster of lilly pads and 1 blackmagic.dechlorinator, nitrate and ammonia test and bene bacteria.
I let the pond filter run 2 days before going back to store and adding 3 6inch fish. I lost all 3.Two in one day and the third a few days latter. I thought they might not be getting enough oxygen so I added a spitter and a 500 gph fountain bio filter combo another cluster of lilly pads. 2 more fish which I lost also. When these died I noticed gaping holes near the gills.So I have my first taste of parasites. I feel like my water quality is ok being a new pond. SO I GO BACK TO THE POND STORE AND GET ph,saline,bufferd salt, pharmacide green, melafix algafix barley straw. have spent beyond my means on trying to get every thing correct. have vaccummed pond out drained 50% water toped back off.
I am now making a med tank out of a 50 gallon plastik tub to quarentine any fish before adding them to pond any suggestions would be appreciated . I dont want to kill anymore fish and I dont want to waste any more money on materials I really dont need Thank you

[Terri]

First, !welcome to Koi Reflections.


We will do our best to help you through, we all have a wide range of experience here... and believe me majority of us have been where you are right now.

Have you tested the water with your new kits? If so what were the readings? There really should not be an issue with water quality at the moment being the pond is new, but having a base line is important(pH, KH, GH). One consideration is the primary water parameters of your new pond to those that the fish came from - too much of a difference in pH & temperature may cause problems shortly after introduction.
Did you add the dechlor before adding the fish? Again I would not think this to be an issue after two days.. unless your local water supply has chloramine.

Let's assume the fish you purchased were already sick/had parasites. Not knowing what to look for when choosing healthy fish can be frustrating once you get them home. Young koi should be actively cruising(schooling) the tanks, looking for food. Shy fish(huddled in a corner) should be avoided. (this topic is for another thread i suppose) It's good to see you are starting up a quarantine tank, much easier to keep an eye on the fish and treat if needed. Typically you want to create an exceptional water environment for your new fish, good turnover/flow rate and saturated O2 levels. You can add salt to 0.1% to help settle them in and deal with a cycling filter... but this is something I do not do as if there is a need to treat with chemicals like formalin the addition of salt takes that option away for immediate use.

SO I GO BACK TO THE POND STORE AND GET ph,saline,bufferd salt, pharmacide green, melafix algafix barley straw. Return the melafix, algafix, and barley straw (hope you kept your receipt) to the store.
Saline? Do you mean salinity test kit?
Buffered salt? Do you mean water softener salt? Sea(marine) salt?

Wish I could finish my thoughts but I'm being interupted here... back with more later. In the meantime, read through the koi health section... lots of good info there.

BTW, wil be moving this thread to the appropiate forum so it doesn't "get lost" and you get the help you asking for.

[Dave in Innisfil]

You've come to the right spot for advice and guidance. Also new to this hobby, this spring I had what I refer to as my "pondmare", losing 99 of 101 fish. The good folks here patiently helped me thru a total rebuild of my pond, and now I'm a pondaholic. I too left the pond stores with armloads of cures from so-called experts, who in fact were more interested in selling product and fish than keeping me in ponding as a hobby. They've brought me a long way with my many questions and their straight forward answers, and it seems every time I read on of their threads, I learn something new.

Welcome, and don't despair. Help is only a few keystrokes away.

!welcome

[luvya2day]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, and hope to talk more soon but Ive gotta go for now

[Jackie Ramo]

Did the pond store offer you any reason why your fish would die so quickly? I suspect they were sick when you pruchased them. One hopes the store will refund your money.

The Q tank is a good idea as it is much cheaper to treat fish in a small body of water.

Please post the results of your water tests from both the pond and your source water, this will give us a base point to start helping you.

Welcome to the board! !welcome

[Terri]

The holes you noticed on the koi were ulcerations caused by bacteria,... this usually only happens when there is a parasite infection. Parasites tend to accumilate on weak or stressed fish, the damage they can do can eventually cause a bacterial infection.

Assuming you have not added any more fish siince the first 3 were lost, your pond should be a "safe haven" for the introduction of HEALTHY fish. Majority of parasites do not survive long with out a living host(fish)... So buying fish from a good source is important, initially QT(quarantine) is not really required for a brand new pond IF all the koi you bring home are from the SAME source and introduced on the SAME day. QT would be suggested for following additions of fish. REC wrote a nice article on QT, worth reading - Quarantine (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/recarlso/).

Process of Diagnosis (http://backyardpuddle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192) Good information, read when you get a few moments.

What you need (should) to do luvya2day is contact your local koi club and speak to them about who would be a reputible dealer in the Sacromento area. http://www.camelliakoi.org/ is the koi club nearest you. If you go to their Site Map page and click on the THANK YOU link you will see a list of dealers that work with their club. Camellia's next meeting is Sunday, August 28, 2005, most club welcome new hobbyists to sit in on a few meetings before joining.

While there is no guarantee that every fish you purchase from a dealer is "parasite/disease free", going to a recommended dealer by other's who've been satisfied with their service & fish stock is a good place to start - getting to know a dealer is important for trust and peace of mind. For tropical fish, pet stores are "ok" but in my humble opinion I would stay far away from them when it comes to koi... garden centres are not much better. (please note there are always exceptions, depends on the staff/management really).


I'm being interupted here.. again.

[Merlin]

Hi ya luya2day ( but wil you still luv me tomorow :grin: )

Welcome to the forum , sorry to hear your having a bad start to the hobby :(.

As with what is allready mentioned , water parameters are the key thing here if you can post those then it will give us a head start on solving your problem.
I agree with Terri that the problem could be bacterial, but am suprised at the speed in which you lost your fish. 2 in one day alone seems a bit too fast for a bacteria problem to act, unless of course you had purchased seriously ill fish to start with :( .

I know this may be a silly question, but did you add declor to your water before adding the fish, ok you left the water for two days prior to adding the fish, but if your tap water has a high content of chloromin you are asking for trouble, and that would result in a quick loss of your Koi.

One other thing to mention is did you clean your plants before adding them to the pond ?, they too are a great carier for bugs .

Please keep us posted .

Merlin

[marla]

Welcome to the board, sorry about your upstart problems, but you'll sure understand a lot after you've been here a while. Everyone is so helpful, and nice about answering even what you may think is a dumb question (which no question is) They'll eve repeat in easier terms if you don't understand the first time. And best of all all the answers and help come so quickly. :grin:

[Merlin]

Any update :frisbee:

[Gerard]

Hi all

My name is gerard i am also new at this

and i have a problem with nitrite levels

20000lt pond with a 1500lt bio fliter (Ask clinkers as media) i had a problem with pH and nitrate but that has seemed to sort its self out over time the pond is about 4 months old someone has sugested i do a 20 % water change to minimise Nitrites, the only problem is i cheked the Nitrite levels in my Tap water and they are higher then in my pond about .5 (I have contacted the neccessary authority regarding this) the level in my pond is between .25 and .5 i have 7 fish in the pond and one small carcus i cant seem to find. I would like to introduce new fish soon but i dont want to till my nitrite levels are better

Please help what options do i have
Gerard :-?

[Terri]

Hello Gerard, !welcome to Koi Reflections.

You have a couple of options, which you choose would depend on how long it takes for your local water supply co. to fix the nitrite issue.
Reverse Osmosis, ion exchange and distillation are three possible methods for Nitrite removal - these may require the water to be "remade" before it is added to the pond. Adding another(large) biofilter will help but this takes a bit of time for the bacterial culture to catch-up. Immediate removal would be in the form of a neutralizer such as Amquel Plus, a water conditioner(removes chlorine/chloramine, ammonia,nitrite,nitrate). At any rate, the addition of salt to 0.1% will help your fish cope with the Nitrite problem short term, and the addition of more AIR so if you have an extra airpump and a few airstones add them. The level of your pH is also a factor, the more acidic your water is the more toxic nitrite comes to the fish.

As you already know, you won't be adding more fish anytime soon, this nitrite problem must be resolved first.

[Gerard]

Hi Terri thank you very much for your assistance in both my delemas i will be keeping my lilly in the filter until new folage grows then i will be trying the cage thing and regarding the Nitrite issue i will try what i can

once again thank you

i will keep you posted
Gerard :wink:

[Jackie Ramo]

Gerard, welcome to the board.

As Terri has suggested there are several ways of dealing with nitrItes, adding salt to protect the fish being the first step. Just solar water softener salt or sea salt will do. As long as it is just salt no YPS to prevent clumping its fine. This usually means you want the cheaper ones, finaly a bonus in ponding!

Also you could consider building a tickle tower which helps off gass the nitrites faster than a regular filter. Here is a pic of the small one I use inside and outside depending on the season. The pic is inside. It is a strawberry pot filled with scrubbies and bioballs and lava rocks to grow the bacteria on water goes from the pump up the middle through a hose and spills over the top trickling down into the pond. Hence the name trickle tower.

[Dave in Innisfil]

As this is still my first official year as a ponder, I'm interested in learning how to properly avoid and tackle water quality problems. Over the summer, I've gleaned invaluable advice to others, incorporating many ideas and concepts into our two ponds. My work-in-progress-DIY-filter-trickle-tower will be a work of art and science, if ya'll stop giving me ideas on how to make it work better and look purdier...LOL

I modified the trickle-tower concept by including lava with my waterfalls and filters, which I have discontinued my use of for the season, and am now relying on three pond-rated airstones to oxygenate, and no filtering at all. I have a mid-size sub pump positioned as a last resort for winter venting (9 amp draw), which currently can act as a 1' fountain above the surface. I was told not to mix the surface and bottom water during the winter unless absolutely necessary, and positioned the air stones and pump accordingly. Right now I'm waiting for the water to clear and I can inspect the centre trough before plugging this pump in to provide water circulation and additional oxygenation until freeze up. I planned on turning it off after ice forms, and relying on my Bickal DIY ice vent and dual air pumps to ward off gas problems. With ice reaching 2 feet thick, everything is crowded around the deep centre to prevent freeze up. I even ran the air lines in conduit to eliminate it being compressed by the ice (again).

I also removed all the lava features and filters from the ponds, thus no place really for beneficial bacteria to cultivate over the winter, nor is the water being cleaned and "polished" like it used to going thru and over quantities of lava. I'm not "up" on that part of winterizing yet.

Am I now too leaving myself open to a nitrate or other problems ?

[Jackie Ramo]

Should be ok if you have stopped feeding. Test the water, if worried add a bit of salt. 0.1% won't harm the plants and protects the fish.