Pellet foods

[Terri]

What do you use? If the saying "you are what you eat" is true then knowing what your feeding your koi should be important right?

I have a friend who's always trying to ram Mazuri down my throat - "It's good food and cheap!" .. sure? Now there's a new Mazuri, Koi Platinum Wheat Nuggets... he couldn't wait to bring us a "sample". The ingredients list is a mile long!
Honestly, our koi don't seem "keen" on it and the waste produced is like diarrhea - yuck.

We use two main pelleted foods, Hikari(primarily wheat germ) and the JPD line(Nobori and Medicarp). The koi really like both and the waste produced is minimal and looks like fish poop! LOL

I'd like to try Ragen but they can't ship into Canada :( I'd also like to try Hai Feng as I've heard a few good things about it. Ogata is another, but it seems really expensive (to purchase here anyways).

[ozzyrockman]

We use Dianichi premium and all season in med pellets with treats like little watermelon in the spring and summer. I did a little bit of homework on feeds last year and found that Hikari adds corn gluten meal to their koi food line or at least they are the only ones that admit this. They say the way they use corn does not affect koi because it is minimal, is not used as filler and can be digested.

Terri, look into Zeigler foods. I think this is the company that makes Hikari feeds and they have a starter/grower food that’s 42% protein ingredients unknown. If you want send Mazuri and Zeigler an email and let them know you want samples of their koi feeds, they are more than happy to send out a sample and maybe even to Canada if they know your situation.

Mazuri feeds: "dehulled soybean meal and GROUND CORN" not just corn gluten meal is our first clue that it may not be the best selection for our koi and in their Platinum @ 36% protein contains no krill or shrimp meal. Also keep in mind Mazuri does not specialize in fish feed, they offer feeds for alomost every other critter under the sun :( . Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

My guys love their Dianichi food when I buy it for them. They usually get a mix of 2 or 3 types of pellets. They also get fresh foods both fruit/veggies and protien like shrimp or crab, worms and slugs from the garden.

They do not like ShoKoi

[Dayleen]

Terri, I have used and sold every brand your talking about EXCEPT the Mazuri which i would feed to my Koi only after either they or Wardley were the only food companies left on the planet.... :twisted:

Rangen, it's cheap, ingredients are good but not sure my Koi are that into it. Seems to make more waste in the water. Sold over 1000 pounds last year.

Hai-Feng is fantastic....just like Hikari. Koi love it and waste is minimal. Again, sold over 1000 pounds last year. My first order this year is just slightly under 1500 pounds.

Ogata is average priced....Koi love it....i used to sell a lot of it before they had such trouble bringing it into the US.

Nobori, Medi Carp, Yamato Nishiki....all good, impressed with it actually....fish LOVED it. They sent me samples from Japan but now i need to figure out about bringing it in myself. Really hard to understand the Japanese rep with his broken english. Where do you get yours?

Nozomi, Koi love it, good value...didn't get any in last year but normally can't keep it on the shelves.

Dainichi...never tried it, always wanted too especially since i'm a dealer for Dainichi Koi.

Lovestar, silkworm...all great.

Tetra wheatgerm and high growth seem pretty good but very expensive. Can't wait till their rep sneeks me a sample of the one that's only in the UK right now....it's getting rave reviews. Not in North America yet....maybe 2006 i'm told.

I'm trying to stick to 2-3 foods only this year. Less confusing for the consumer i think.

[ozzyrockman]

Dayleen, what can you tell me about the Wardley foods. I have never purchased it or considered purchasing it however the info would be appreciated. As for the Mazuri would you like me to send you the samples that I have had sitting around for about 8 months? Allen They are new unopened :roll:

[Dayleen]

I'm not sure if your kidding or not :lol:

In case you think i was endorsing Mazuri and Wardley....i wasn't.....i wouldn't feed that food to my pet rats....LOL

[ozzyrockman]

Dayleen, I ordered koi food samples from Mazuri last August and immediately put them on the bad idea/do not use shelf after reading the ground corn portion. As for Wardley what can you tell me about their food, my pleco's go for the Dainichi koi food before they eat the Wardley algae wafers so I am interested in why.

I think you and Terri should seriously look into the Zeigler feeds and possibly start your own koi food line in Canada :idea: . I am also interested in whether or not they are the manufacturer of Hikari koi foods :?: and would be interested in the Zeigler ingredients as well. Allen

http://www.zeiglerfeed.com/
http://www.zeiglerfeed.com/tropaqua.asp
see Koi Diets[/url]

[Terri]

Hikari was created and is manufactured in Japan by Kamihata Fish Industries LTD., Allen. They specialize in aquatic diets.

I've put in a request to Zeigler about their ingredients list, we'll see if they reply. Never heard of them until now... who knows?

Where do you get yours?
Dayleen, email me about JPD if you're interested. I'd prefer not to discuss business on the board. :)

[Dayleen]

Ozzy,

If i'm out of Hikari algae wafers (and i'm not putting in an order soon) i'll use the Wardly ones. The fish aren't very crazy for them (Pleco) but will eat them. They brown my water and you can see debris floating around from it. Wardly "in my opinion" doesn't make any good food....aquarium or otherwise. Their food is okay for some but not what i want to feed.

There is a huge market out there for un-educated consumers that want the cheapest thing they can find and for them, Wardly fits the bill. Each to their own. Having said that, i will pay $140 for a bag of Lovestar for my Koi but complain about $30 for a bag of dog food....bad i know :twisted:

I buy what my fish like and what can improve their life, colour, body, skin .. etc

My fish also don't like Satori food but the ingredients seem pretty good.

[Terri]

Well, there's another topic, colour enhancing foods... :!:

I've tried Satori, that's by Katie foods yes? It wasn't bad, fish ate it... the goldfish really liked it. It's respectably priced too.

Wardly's isn't so bad, I'd feed that before Mazuri(but we don't use either). Really depends on what you want for your fish and what your pocket book can afford.

Dayleen :lol: our koi eat better than our dogs too :lol:

[Dayleen]

I also meant to say that i don't just feed pellets either. My own personnal Koi eat Hikari wheatgerm (or Hai-feng) all year plus Hikari Excel and Lovestar in summer. They also eat butter lettuce, peas, paste food, prawns, worms, watermelon, oranges, grapefruit and i found out last summer that my big females will knock each other out of the way for chicken wings....no kidding !!

My sister and i were sitting by the pond having some Lousiana style chicken wings and the Koi were sure they wanted some so... i broke of some meat and put my hand in the water....well....i just about lost my fingers....they went nuts for it. Customers thought it was a scream.

[Dayleen]

Ha...my husband says the Koi eat better than he does :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Terri]

I'm sure ian would agrre to that too :wink:

[Jackie Ramo]

Smith claims that the dogs and fish eat better than he does :lol:

[ozzyrockman]

The reason I mentioned the Zeigler foods is because I have two samples that have not been used yet and they appear to be similar in color and nutritional value as Hikari. Brings me to another thought and that is how important is color to a good quality food? I am not sure if it is important or not but the good wheat germ foods seem to have a darker greenish brown color and the less quality like Mazuri has more of a tannish light brown color.

As for the color enhancers I was told that I shouldn't feed color enhancing foods because their color will come in later and if I force the issue with food it could make their colors weak later on in life. Any truth to that? Allen

[Ahhuhz]

No one mentioned ShoKoi pellets. No likie?

[Jackie Ramo]

Chuck my fish don't like them, spit them out.. I do know folks who feed it and like it.

!welcome

[Ahhuhz]

Mine seem to like them. I believe KeirinKoi feeds their kids and sells them.

[Jackie Ramo]

As I said Chuck, lots of folks seem to like the food but my fish don't. I also wasn't happy with the hydrogenated feathers... as part of the ingredients list.

[Dayleen]

I have fed ShoKoi and the fish got used to it. It really did seem to improve their skin and they grew like mad.

OOOOO....nasty....hydrogenated feathers .... really ...yuk !!!

[Tom C]

For the last few years I have only been feeding my koi Hikari wheatgerm. I have to say I am very happy with it. It's not a cheap koi food, but what's cheap in this hobby. I also feed Koi-Life Koi Food to some of the koi we sell. It seems to do well with them and helps keep down some of the cost over Hikari wheatgerm. The growth has been very good on them also.

Tom

[Shane]

This food seems to be about as good as it can get at a great price.

Shane

[Merlin]

I also meant to say that i don't just feed pellets either. My own personnal Koi eat Hikari wheatgerm (or Hai-feng) all year plus Hikari Excel and Lovestar in summer. They also eat butter lettuce, peas, paste food, prawns, worms, watermelon, oranges, grapefruit and i found out last summer that my big females will knock each other out of the way for chicken wings....no kidding !!

My sister and i were sitting by the pond having some Lousiana style chicken wings and the Koi were sure they wanted some so... i broke of some meat and put my hand in the water....well....i just about lost my fingers....they went nuts for it. Customers thought it was a scream.
CHICKEN WINGS :???: Now that is a new one on me <:o

[Terri]

Ok Allen, I heard from Ziegler.

Two type of food, koi growth and koi fancier.
Koi Fancier: Nitrogen-preserved to improve shelf-life and freshness.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Minimum 30.0%
Crude Fat Minimum 5.0%
Crude Fiber Maximum 3.0%
Moisture Maximum 10.0%
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) Minimum 175 mg/kg
Ingredients
Wheat, Fish Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Corn Gluten Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Sodium Phosphate, Fish Oil, Shrimp Meal, Dried Spirulina Algae, Salt, Soy Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Artificial Color, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin.


Koi Grower: Nitrogen-preserved to improve shelf-life and freshness.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Minimum 42.0%
Crude Fat Minimum 6.0%
Crude Fiber Maximum 3.0%
Moisture Maximum 10.0%
Ascorbic Acid (Vit. C) Minimum 175 mg/kg

Ingredients
Wheat, Fish Meal, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Corn Gluten Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Sodium Phosphate, Fish Oil, Shrimp Meal, Dried Spirulina Algae, Salt, Soy Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Artificial Color, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E Supplement), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Canthaxanthin.




I'd chalk this one up with Mazuri and Wardley's.... not for my koi fishies ;)

[Terri]

p.s. this was recommended for both foods..

Feeding Instructions
Feed as the sole diet 1 to 3 times daily. No supplementation
is necessary for healthy fish. Feed freely; only as much as the
fish will consume in 5 minutes of feeding.

[GregBickal]

I currently us Mazzuri. Hey, what can I say, its all I can afford. I go through 3-4 pounds a day outside in the summer time. At $28 for a 20 pound bag, thats the cheapest I can go. I have reducted my herd from 120 (in 2003), to 85 in (2004), to 50 for (2005), problem is the dang koi keep growing so I have to keep feeding as much or more :roll:

[Jackie Ramo]

I think that as long as the koi have a mixed diet with fresh fruit and veggies the koi will do fine with a corn based pellet. Now the filters will have to be bigger and work harder though

[Busy B]

Wheat middlings?

[luke frisbee]

ZEIGLER is better than Alot better than Wardley, and just normal better than Mazuri....at least the "Koi Growth" formula...i feed 'em both when I win 'em in a raffle and the koi eat it...unlike tetra "wheat germ sticks"...even MY koi won't eat that sludge. and when I tried to get it out of the pond..well I learned it turned to sludge.

[Jackie Ramo]

Luke I thought you fed your fish mouldy food and bad potato chips?

[Cinnamon]

Everything I have read suggests feeding 2 or 3 different kinds of pellets. Is this true? I know Jackie you said that you do. I also read that you need to discard any pellets you have had for over 90 days. Is that correct? I would be lost without my "answer" people! I really do appreciate all of you for your unending help for us newbies! :wink:

[Jackie Ramo]

Certainly I don't disgard any pellets after 90 days... I never have anything that gets to be a year old but one would think that a minimum of 6 months. Mind I doubt the fish mind but the vitamins etc are probably all gone from 1 year old pellets.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I was thinking that sounded weird. I don't even remember now where I read it. Thanks! I haven't thrown mine out and I have had it over 90 days! I have thought about ordering some Hai-feng as I have read how good it is. I may try a couple of pounds and alternate with what I am giving them now.

[GregBickal]

If I could afford another pendulum demand feeder, I would like to experiment with multiple foods. See if the koi prefer one food over the other.

I wonder if I could get a government grant to study that :unsure:

[Jackie Ramo]

Greg if you lived in Canada they'd line up to give your the money ;)

Pam, I just mix the pellets in a container and feed the fish. They get a different mix of amoutns each time. I also vary what foods i buy. One day I may make food for them but right now I'm cooking for the dogs instead.

[ozzyrockman]

Sorry Terri, I thought it was worth at least looking into. As for the exp of food I would say about 1 year from purchase would be the longest I would go on a bag of food. The Dainichi I bought last Oct had an exp of 4/06 and I also tried a 5lb bag of Blue Ridge color rich and my spoiled little brats just turn their noses and leave it for me to clean out of the food ring so I feed this to our shubunks and goldies.

Anyone have any input on AZOO, I was considering adding this to the !wow! !wow! !wow! $$$ Dainichi food they are so sadly accustom to eating. For us it's simply and matter of not wanting to spend $120 a month or more on foods for them that is why I am looking at foods that will make a good compliment to what these spoiled little brat's are already eating. Allen

[Terri]

Don't apologize Allen ;-) it was worth it in my opinion, now we know what is in the food - I was hoping for a more detailed analysis, meaning how much of each ingredient is in the food, too much to ask I suppose. Anyways, now whoever reads this can make their own choice based on the info provided. I don't think Zielgler is a "bad" food choice, just not my choice.

We mix our foods... Hikari wheat germ is the staple of their diet year round.

I've heard good things and not so good things about AZOO (go figure? lol) but haven't had the pleasure of trying it yet. I would like to hear thoughts on this food as well.

[Ahhuhz]

I used Azoo for a year and the kids loved it.

By the way, Sarge is selling some stuff called Yamakoshi Koi food. over at Koiphen if you are a member there. There are a few different types of food and the prices and ingredients look good to me.

[Cinnamon]

Greg as far as a grant from the US Government to study Koi food, APPLY! Heck they give grants for everythign else. Who knows!

[Jackie Ramo]

Yeah, not matter what gov't they are good at giving our money away.

I doubt there is one pellet on the market that does it all. Also I feel that my fish enjoy a variety of foods rather than just one type of pellet,no matter how good, all the time. As for cheap pellets, hey we all eat junk food why not the fish now and again, If it helps spread the budget about... not all the pellets have to be top of the line.

[ozzyrockman]

One thing I have learned and regularly practice: I never buy newly introduced products because it seems when I do I get stuck with the stuff that doesn't work or has problems. Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

One thing I have learned and regularly practice: I never buy newly introduced products because it seems when I do I get stuck with the stuff that doesn't work or has problems. Allen


And those new releases cost more !rofl

[ozzyrockman]

Jackie, Isn't it amazing how that works. You would think that it would be substantially lower and then raise the price to get peoples interests. I'm certain that marketing people for our hobby are not much different than in any other business and how do the build interest for a product? Hype Yep and I’m not much for fads either. Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

Allen, people will pay to be the first to try things and brag to their friends, but raise the price!!! they'll go and look for something else.

[Terri]

Yamakoshi Koi food , never heard of it? What's in it? Who makes it?

[luke frisbee]

Jr.,
I do (yuck,that gives me the willies...saying that), but I also feed them what I win in raffles at koi shows....oh and today they got another treat....i took the cover off the barbie today and then proceeded to do a marathon roach stompin...must have been having a convention or something.....i tossed a whole handful..I mean a WHOLE handful of roaches to the fishes.

[Jackie Ramo]

I am not sure, which gives me the willies more, you saying I do, or a HANDFUL of coach roaches... I may not sleep tonight :eek: !bonk !rofl

[Ahhuhz]

It is some new blends that Sarge is putting together.

[Tammygirl815]

I myself would rather use watermelon as a sweet treat for my kids!

[ozzyrockman]

Revised info:
Terri, another one of interest is Taplow Feeds for Koi. WHATS WITH THE GROUND CORN I THOUGHT IT WAS BAD FOR KOI :-? . I guess on the brighter side of things at least they put shrimp meal and krill in theirs. Allen

FirstMate KOI FOOD is a superior and nutritionally balanced koi food, formaulated with high quality plant and fish ingredients. It contains spirulina algae, krill meal , and natural color - enhanceing ingredients added for color brightness. This highly digestable formulation is designed to meet the energy and nutritional requirements with the use of natural ingredients for healthy fish.

* Fortified with a stabilized form of vitamin C, essential for rapid repair
of body tissue and enhanced disease resistance.
* Outstanding palatability
* Highly digestible

INGREDIENTS:
Herring meal, soybean meal, ground yellow corn, alfalfa meal, wheat flour, shrimp meal , corn gluten meal, wheat germ meal, brewer's yeast, krill meal, spirulina algae, herring oil, dicalcium phosphate, DL-methionine, canthaxanthin, Vitamin C ( a natural preservative ) , biotin, choline chloride, inositol, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin B12, Vit A , Vitamin D3, Vitamin E ( a natural preservative), Vitamin K , salt, astaxanthin, magnesium oxide, zinc oxide, ferric oxide, ferrous sulphate, manganous oxide,copper sulphate, cobalt carbonate, iodine, selenium.

FEED ANALYSIS:
Protein (minimum) .......................................... 35.0 %
Fat (minimum) .......................................... 5.0 %
Fibre (maximum) ......................................... 7.0 %
Ash (maximum) ......................................... 4.0 %
Moisture (maximum) ....................................... 11.0%
Pepsin digestibility .......................................... 91% actual

[ozzyrockman]

I got my wires crossed and below is are the indredients for Rangen. Sorry for the confusion I was getting emails from serveral different feed companies. Allen

Koi Color
For Cultured Fish
Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein (minimum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36.0%
Crude Fat (minimum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.0%
Crude Fiber (maximum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.0%
Ash (maximum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.0%
Phosphorus (minimum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.0%

Ingredient Statement:
Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Spirulina, Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, DL Methionine, Fish Oil, Lecithin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Vitamin C), Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid (d-calcium panothenate), Pyridoxine (hydrochloride), Riboflavin, Thiamine (mononitrate), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin A (acetate), Vitamin D (d-activated animal sterol), Vitamin E (di-alpha-tocopheryl acetate), Vitamin K3 (menadione sodium bisulfate complex), Zinc Sulfate, Ethyline Diamine Dihydriodide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Propionate, Ethoxyquin (preservative).

FEEDING DIRECTIONS: Feed as the sole ration for cultured omnivorous and carnivorous species. DO NOT FEED TO CATTLE OR OTHER RUMINANTS.
MANUFACTURED BY:
RANGEN, INC.
115 13TH Avenue South / Box 706
Buhl ID 83316
Net Weight 25 lbs. (11.36kg)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Koi Staple
For Cultured Fish
Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein (minimum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .36.0%
Crude Fat (minimum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.0%
Crude Fiber (maximum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.0%
Ash (maximum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.0%
Phosphorus (minimum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.0%


Ingredient Statement:
Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, DL
Methionine, Fish Oil, Lecithin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Vitamin C), Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid,
Niacin, Pantothenic Acid (d-calcium panothenate), Pyridoxine (hydrochloride), Riboflavin, Thiamine (mononitrate), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin A (acetate), Vitamin D (d-activated animal sterol), Vitamin E (di-alpha-tocopheryl acetate), Vitamin K3 (menadione sodium bisulfate complex), Zinc Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Propionate, Ethoxyquin (preservative).

FEEDING DIRECTIONS: Feed as the sole ration for cultured omnivorous and carnivorous species. DO NOT FEED TO CATTLE OR OTHER RUMINANTS.
MANUFACTURED BY:
RANGEN, INC.
115 13TH Avenue South / Box 706
Buhl ID 83316
Net Weight 25 lbs. (11.36kg)