Cheap external pump

[ozzyrockman]

I gotta admit I did an experiment with a pump that has worked most excellent. To start with way back when to test my diy filters I was using a 1hp Hayward pool pump that produces about 6800gph however the major down side was the 12amp draw it used which would be about $70 per month in power usage. So last fall I started research on a cost effective pump and this is what I came up with. A GE 1 1/8hp 56J frame 2 spd 3450/1725 115v swimming pool motor 11.9/3.3amp, Hayward pool pump and leaf trap, little giant RS5 level switch shut off good to 10amp and single pole three way switch (entire pond on GFI).

This pump is wired to the 3 way switch so I have an on/off and high/low setting since the pump is two speeds and the low side has ran since April 23rd with the little giant rs5 low level switch wired into the low side since it is only rated to 10 amp. The really nice feature is I can switch the pump to high when I want to back flush the diy filters and I have the option of running it on high for a few hours per day on high when I want. Last year at the time we where consuming 41kilowatts per day, this year we are consuming 45kwh with an additional 4800 gallon pond, 1250gph submersible in the skimmer and a 40 watt uv so I would say it has worked well on the power usage considering our air temp has been 3f lower.

To sum it up as it stands I have $150 dollars in the pump setup and the way I see it if it only lasts 1 1/2 years at that point will already pay for itself in comparison with on of the high dollar pumps. $50 for the used hayward and $100 for the new ge pump. Allen

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[Busy B]

I didn't know just how spendy pumps can be till I went searching for them. High investment aren't they? Hope it works for you and as you say, if it only lasts for awhile, your not out too much. Can you buy parts for it?

Noticed your cord...hubby has spliced my sub pumps cord. There's a tube like material he used. Slid it over the connecting ends and heated it and it shrinks around the splice. Good for a watertight seal.

[Rembrandt]

You da man Ozzy! :grin:
Rembrandt

[Dave in Innisfil]

That's the kind of pump/skimmer set up I'm trying to DIY. Just took back a 220 volt pump for fear of high electrical costs. Is that pump fairly quiet, as we're looking at having the pump underneath the porch ?

[Jackie Ramo]

I got a free swimming pool pump but have no idea how to even hook it up!! anyway 1 hp or 1.5 hp as it has two speeds. No manual but apparently never used. My Dad wouldn't lie to me would he? :wink:

[ozzyrockman]

Depending upon the manufacturer, pool pumps for the most part are very serviceable and easy to clean prior to applying to pond applications. The pump I used is a 1hp Hayward and parts are common, easy to get at most any pool supply store, the motors are universal when looking pay attention to the frame type (NEMA #), shaft lengths and threaded end on the shaft. I did not see a reason to run 220v down to the pond because its no cost effective as our house panel is full up and I am to cheap to install a new panel now (Damn 220 wall heaters). As for noise well all I can say is it's as loud as a normal pool pump :) however mine is enclosed in an insulated pump hose so I cannot hear it anyway.

The Sequence pumps use a Baldor motor and I would be interested to find out if they manufacture their own pump or if they outsource their pumps like they do their motors. Wouldn't it be funny if the used Hayward pumps.

Rem, hears one for you and Cinn to design. Build an old school water wheel to a chain driven gear reduction setup then to one of these pool pumps less motor and incorp the water wheel into a stream. Could this work? No more power bill? HUMM :frisbee:

Jackie, post the numbers from the tag on the motor and I can tell you all the info you need to know about the pump. Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

Allen, other than it is a Hayward pump the 'new' pump is so old the numbers have worn off the metal plate.... :lol: The box says it is a super pump but doesn't have a check mark against which one may be in the box of the 6 or so listed but all are 1 - 1.5 hp, not to say the pump in the box was bought in hthat box....

My neighbour said he will come over one day and show me how to hook it up. I thought it would be great for water changes and such. Doubt if I would use it for the pond itself but who knows, not me, I'm technically challenged.

[ozzyrockman]

Jackie, send me the list of the 6 on the box and I will try and chase it down for you. It sounds like he set you up with a nice setup. Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

Allen, sorry more than 6 listed on the box... each end has a list. Who knows what pump it is, but it is huge!!! :grin:

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[ozzyrockman]

Jackie, Ouch. I can tell you that if you search on Harwards site you can find available parts for it. If you take the back cover on the motor off it may have an id on it and this would help alot in how to wire it in. Does it have a standard three prong cord atteched to the motor already? Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

Yes the cord is attached already. My neighbour said when he gets back he will come over and show us how it works. Not sure I have use for it but the price was right. We just changed over to a Beckette 3600 from the Tursumi (sp?) 3000. Can't see a difference of course but hopefully there is one.

[Tom C]

Do you want to know how to save money with those pumps?

Tom

[Jackie Ramo]

Do you want to know how to save money with those pumps?

Tom


Are you going to say "Don't plug them in?" :lol:

[Tom C]

Are you going to say "Don't plug them in?"

NOPE, I'm going to say put them in the trash. Would you like to talk about why I would say this?

Tom

[TASSAJARA]

Aqua-flo makes a model called XP2 in 1 1/2 hp that is a 2 speed and you can get it in a 48 or 56 frame and 110 or 220v. It only uses 3.8 amps on low for 4400 gph and 13.8 amps on high with good head pressure on both speeds. The cost on them is around $250.00 and have a 5 year warranty.

Besides giving no trouble since installation, (2/2003) I have to say the people at the factory are great. I called them this spring and mentioned to them that the pump or motor sounded like it had a bearing going. I mentioned that it is on line cautiously and that I could not send it to them to be looked at without loosing my fish. They said no problem. Just send me the sticky label tag with the serial number on it in an envelope. They sent me a brand NEW pump and motor free of charge and I still have the used one. I love these people, I now have a back up in case something goes wrong and to be honest with you, the original pump/motor was working fine, I just called to see if that sound was a concern.

[Tom C]

It only uses 3.8 amps on low for 4400 gph and 13.8 amps on high with good head pressure on both speeds.

4400 gph at what head pressure? Why do you need a 2 speed pump? Do you know how many gph on high and at what head pressure?

Tom

[Jackie Ramo]

Tom, I was only thinking of using mine for water changes so the cost isn't an issue as much as if I was to run it full time as my main pump.

Why are you so unhappy with them?

[ozzyrockman]

Tell me more Tom. 20' head 86 gpm @3450 rpm 5160 gph.
Sequence 5800SEQ23 23' 5800 gph @ 1750

Allen

[Tom C]

Tell me more Tom. 20' head 86 gpm @3450 rpm 5160 gph. Sequence 5800SEQ23 23' 5800 gph @ 1750


Allen sorry, but you have some wrong info you posted. The Sequence 1000 5800SEQ23 at 23' of head has a flow rate of 0 gph. 23' of head on that pump is the shut off. That pump with no head on it will get 5800 gph.

Tom

[Terri]

Tom is correct.

The Sequence pumps use a Baldor motor and I would be interested to find out if they manufacture their own pump or if they outsource their pumps like they do their motors. Wouldn't it be funny if the used Hayward pumps.
So far as I'm aware the pumps are manufactured inhouse... ?

[Tom C]

Jackie any pump will be fine for just water changes. It will not cost much at all to run it that little amount of time.

When we talk about 2 speed pumps as a full time pumps for the pond, they will kill you. In some cases you might need on. If you run a sand filter you might need one. If you have a old bead filter or a home made bead filter you might need one. All the rest of the cases put them in the trash because they will suck you dry.

Here's a pump operational cost calculator. http://www.pondpetsusa.com/water_pumps_ext/index.html It's very easy to use, do the math and see what it would cost you to run a 12 amp pump for a month. It would cost me $133 a month if it was in 115 volt. $267 in 230 volt. Just think of how many pumps you could buy in a years time.

Ozzyrockman you said your old pump pumped 6800 gph, but again at what head pressure at 6800 gph.

When I have a little more time, I will post some more on cost of pumps over cost of running them.

Tom

[ozzyrockman]

Tom that is why I used the GE motor on the Hayward pump. On low setting mine is only drawing 3.3 amps which according to the calculator link is $22 per month operating cost however somehow I am only using 4khw per day more than last year at this time and have not changed anything but adding the big pond and equipment. As for the sequence post I did not say it would product 5800gph at 23'. For the sake of argument can we agree that sequence uses the Baldor motor? Please feel free to research this as I already have and yes they do use the baldor motor for certain. That being said what is the major design difference between pumps less motor? Allen

[Jackie Ramo]

Now this is depressing. The calculator says my new beckette pump will cost over 100.00 a month to run... Mind it only gave watts not amps on the box so my math may be wrong... 300 watts

[TASSAJARA]

Jackie,

300 watts at 110v is just under 3 amps, 2.72 amps . For example 1 amp * 110 volts = 110 watts


4400 gph at what head pressure? Why do you need a 2 speed pump? Do you know how many gph on high and at what head pressure?

Tom

Yes I do, 74gpm @ 2.5 psi and 0 gpm at 7 psi on low, high speed is rated at 145gpm @ 12psi and o gpm @ 25psi. I have a bead filter and hi helps when back washing or impressing the company at parties.

[Jackie Ramo]

Thanks Michale. It doesn't help with the hydro bill though :) I think I did my old pump and it was about 30.00 a month... big difference.

[TASSAJARA]

Jackie, If you can run an external pump it will pay for it self in time. Not to mention you can go to a larger pipe size to move more water and keep your water velocity under 5fps. This creates less friction and pressure also.

When using the Pump Operational Cost Calculator at http://www.pondpetsusa.com/water_pumps_ext/index.html , make sure you enter the amount of the cost per kwh in pennies. Example, electric bill shows 4.8 cents per kwh. Enter it like .048 to get the correct reading.

As for the kwh cost for you, it should be very cheap with all the hydro plants in Canada I would think, just look on your bill, it should show the cost.

[Jackie Ramo]

Thanks Michael, I redid the calculations and its about 20.00 a month to run this new pump... What a difference that decimal makes :lol:

One day after we win the lottery a new pond will be designed and perhaps a pump house but until then I have to deal with what I have. Of course the biggest obsticle to changing things is my stubborness about plants ... I won't give them up for an external pump. :) Digging a hole the size of
china beside the pond, as I've seen at friends homes, makes no sense to me. I'm waiting for technology to catch up :smile: