white fuzz???

[marla]

OK so it's not a koi, but I have a shubunkin that had what looked to be some missing scales, on one side near tail, didn't notice any major redness even yesterday. Tonight I noticed it looks a little fuzzy (white) I tried for an hour to catch the bugger to get a closer look and maybe iodine it, but no luck. He's a fast swimmer, eating good, stays in the school, everything else seems good but that one spot. Could this be a healing fuzz? Should I try harder at getting him and stress him out more, or just watch it for now. It's dark now and I work early in the morning so I couldn't get to him till tommorow afternoon. Is there a trick to catching these guys????

[Jackie Ramo]

Oh Marla, we all with we knew the trick of catching these guys...

White often means healing and if he is swimming fine and eating then I'd not panic about it. Still it still bares watching and if he doesn't show up for a mean or it grows instead of shrinks I'd find a way to net him up.

[Terri]

Healing "fuzz"?... you need a closer look Marla. If you have two nets get some help, one to corral and the other to catch. Healing tissue does appear white but not fuzzy.

[marla]

With the help of my husband we caught the little bugger,he flipped in the net so if there was fuzz or hanging stuff when I flipped him back I didn't see it. However I did Iodine it. It was hard for my novice eyes to tell if it was redness around the white cavity area (looked like a scale or scale and a half size), or if it was natural read spot color. The read area did have scales so maybe it was just it's natural color there. Put him back in the pond will keep a close eye on him. If it gets worse looking I'll QT it. Thanks

[Jackie Ramo]

Good job. Could be that he bumped himself fighting for food. Keep an eye on him.

[Terri]

Way to go :-) May be a pain to catch fish but it is good practice for you and the fish ;) and it gets better/easier each time. I also think that you've seen enough to "know" if there would have been a problem once the fish was netted... I'm sure your shubbie will be fine.

[Merlin]

How to catch them , first arm yourself with a fishing rod and a few tasty worms :lol: . Ok before I get told off, that is not the way. What works for me is to leave a large net in the pond so it is resting on the bottom underneath the area you normaly feed them, this has to be done first thing in the morning. leave it there for a couple of hours so the fish get used to it being there. Then feed them, they will ignore the net as they do not see it as a threat. Once the fish you wish to catch is above the net feeding wip it up, ok you may get some of the others too, but just pick them out of the net and let them go.

[Louis]

*:|

i'v got two goldfish i can't catch..
caught 4 still two to go..
i'll try this over the week...thx

[Merlin]

It realy makes me mad , :mad: why do they not understand we are trying to help them and just swim in to the net :roll: . :grin: :grin:

[marla]

Alright, we caught the little bugger again, because it does not seem to be getting better and maybe even a tad bigger, also noticed a spot on the top first dorsal fin that looks like it might have tore that looks sore. I put on some iodine on this and put him in a 25gal, rubbermaid container, wit .1%salt if I got my decimal in the right spot. Should I change out water tommorrow and up to .2% or leave him in the .1% for a while. attatching a very poor fuzzy pic, I didn't want to stress him anymore, bad enough after the shot I went to pick him and the wash cloth up, must have spooked him and he flipped off, should listen to Jackie and keep a hand on them.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/fish.jpg

[Jackie Ramo]

If you are going to keep him in the tub, up the salt to 0.3 just to help him faster. Salt is also and antibacterial so will help with that as well.

Any chance of getting a filter going on the tub, just makes it easier for you...

[marla]

I've been so busy didn't have a chance to get back on. Jackie, I changed water the next morning before work and did .2%, when I got home and saw the message I raised it to .3%. I have a internal, Tetra aquarium filter, uses cartridges. I also have a lare airstone block in and not sure if I should have but today I added some Amuquel Plus. Can I feed the bugger very lightly. So far he seems happy in his limited surroundings, hope so because usualy my good intentions and TLC have been deadly in the past. About how long will some thing like this usualy take to heal?

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, once it starts to heal and the fuzz part is gone, I'd chance him back inthe pond. Terri may have different advice. But fish are happy with other fish and its easier to keep better water in the pond than in a tub. Is there any redness or how does it look now?

[marla]

The redness around the area, as seen in that poor picture, seems to be not as bright. From above the area seems to be maybe swollen a little, but deep in the center, like a volcanoe crater. Not huge but noticable compared to the uninjured side.

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, is it just me or is there no picture???

If he is doing fine hold him another day so you can see if it is in fact healing.

[marla]

Just took him out (easier to catch from a tub) and took a couple better shots. I guess there is more redness when you see the sore out of the water. Not much if any fuzz, but the sore still looks so deep and ouch. Is there anything else to do? He is very active, changed out about 1/4 of the water this morning. The water tests look good I'm just trying to keep safe. I'm thinking it would be healthier to keep him in the tub, even though he'd probably like to be with his buddies. What about feeding, I did give him a few pellets last night and he gobbled them up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0721feet30002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0721feet30001.jpg

[Jackie Ramo]

The bottom section looks to be healing with the new white skin growing over it but the upper part still looks open. I'd leave him in the tub, watch the water and feed just a few pellets since you feel you have to. I don't see much in the way of red infection anywhere which is good there is red from the injury and a bit of swelling but hey we all do that when cut. Over all he looks good and is obviously feeling good.

Usual drill, watch the water parameters and temp and keep the salt at 0.3 for now.

[marla]

Thanks Jackie, your a life saver, glad your here I know I can always count on you to help me out and help me feel better. Some day I hope I will gain as much knowledge as you have. I still worry and check on him morning and a couple times at night, haven't had much luck saving sick fish, so my fingers stay crossed for this guy. I have well water so I know I don't have to dechlor. but I noticed that both the ammonia lock and the amaquel plus, have it. I also know it can't hurt to add it. Of the two would one be better, or realy not necessary, I have both on hand. I added it because I had fed him and it's a small area, but if the water test ok should I worry about adding it when doing partial water changes? And will it change test results?

[Jackie Ramo]

I'd add a bit just to protect him from the ammonia he produces. the better his water the faster he will heal. Now, I would not send you out to buy it but since you have it on hand, no sense leaving it on the shelf... I'd use the amquel but either will do the job.

Marla, I was once a beginner and there are many things I don't know. Learning is a life process.

[marla]

do I need to be concerned??? All of what looked white on the last picture I posted now looks red, also, the small area on his dorsal fin looks larger and red all of a sudden and one of the pelvic fins has a large tear area. The only rocks in the tub are holding down an air block. He also does not seem to be swimming as nice alittle leaning. Is this sore getting infected, and what else can I do? Hate to loose him he seemed to be getting better for awhile there. If need be I can post pictures didn't take any. Been changing about 1/3 or more water about every other night to keep the ammonia and nitrates in line, also useing amaquel plus and a stress coat when changing water, salt at .3%

[Jackie Ramo]

I'd do the iodine again then. Yes it doesn't look good. Not sure how much of it is water problems. Its always hard to keep them in small tubs. Do you have medicated food?

[Terri]

Medicated food would be a start Marla if you can get some. I believe Tom from PondPetsUSA and/or Gene from Koi Village sell Debride medicated food as well as the Debride ointment. Just recently I used both of these on a scaleless butterfly and worked very well to cleanup/heal the surface ulcers. The redness is bacterial infection. Another swab with iodine will help as Jackie suggests but if the wound seems to be getting worse not better then you need some sort of anitbiotic. This along with excellent waterQ and your shubby should heal very well.

Chuck the Stress coat, total bunk and won't "help" just irritate. Keep up the Amquel use only if you get readings of ammonia/nitrite. Up the partical water changes to everyday. Keep the O2 up high.

[Jackie Ramo]

Although I have not used it myself I do know those who have used polysporin on fish before debride hit the market. May act as a fill in product while waiting for delivery.

[marla]

Ok, I did a re-iondine, tried to rub it a little to maybe remove dead stuff. Looks pretty bad, could I have some fin rot going on also. I'll try to find some med. food and debribe close by if I can. Is the polysporin your talking about Jackie just the same ointment as I would use on me? Attaching a photo. I have no luck when it comes to TLC with my fish always seems to backfire. And to top it off our pump on the pond quit!!! Good thing we're on vacation. My husband went to pick up a spare till a new one gets in. Going to go do a water change, I've been just using tap water should I use the pond water instead? maybe I'll wait for an answer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0725arbor0011.jpg

[marla]

did a lot of phone calls, coming up empty on most counts. I was able to locate some med. fish food, have to go get it. One place told me to try adding Desafin. I have this on hand would that be an option. If so, I think I remember somewhere reading it would not be good to use if the water was salted is this true. Should I just forget the idea. Well going to get some food, the place is really closed today but they said I could swing by.

[Terri]

Unless you know you have parasites on the shubbie Desafin is not going to help that sore - and you right it should not be used with salt as there is formaldehyde in it. It's not made to treat fish who already have sores/ulcers... more harm than good in this case Marla.

Removing dead tissue is ok, the iodine will only effect the bacteria on the upper most surface. The medicated food if the shubby is still eating will help do the rest along with (saying it again) excellent water quality and high oxygen levels in the water.

You need to start putting you doubts aside Marla ;-) We all have experienced fish loss to varying degrees and we can't always save them all no matter how hard we try.

Yes polysporin is what humans use for minor cuts and scrapes. It's an antibiotic cream but not very useful after it hits water and I'm not sure how effective the meds are in the cream against the bacteria that is on your fish, each has different antibiotics in varying amounts... so read the label...

[marla]

Thanks Terri, actually don't know how this sore started, but all the fish in the main pond seem fine so I didn't think it could be a parasite, not sure, one place told me I could bring it in and have it scraped but it would be a sacrificial scrape for the others in the pond. I opted no. The only med. food I found was one by Tetra it's a bacterial one. He ate about 3 pellets the rest ended up on the bottom. Should I up the salt or leave it at .3%. I've got about 20 gal in the tub I've been adding 5Tablespoons per 5 gal of water I change is that right?.

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, you are doing a good job. That sore looks nasty indeed. I think the fin rot and the sore are related bacteria but the looks of the photo.

I've not had to treat this kind of wound but Terri is the expert. The polysporin is yes the same topical antibiodic cream we use. Since most of us have it on hand I figured it was worth the effort to try it.

[marla]

If it is indeed fin rot now would it be more feasable to treat with the desafin and med. food or stick with the salt? Don't have polysporin on hand all I have is neosporine, but I could run to Wallgreens/or Walmart after dinner. I know I'm doing everything I should, just every time I get a sick fish it's alot of effort/stress/worry on my part and does little good. Still crossing my fingers.

[Jackie Ramo]

The creams are the same thing just a different make, use what you have... I'd not use desafin on that fish. Its really not good for open wounds like that.

[marla]

Thanks again, I'll be changing water after dinner and use the neosporin hope it does something.

[Terri]

Salt is a wonderful tool Marla, stick with it. .3% is fine for the moment and will aid with healing the fin rot as well as encourage slime coat production... and relieve some stress. Put the desafin away girl ;-)
I think it would be prudent to get yourself a salt test kit so you are accurately able to monitor the salinity level. Save your mad money and get a digital salt meter down the road or ask Santa for one this Christmas :grin:

Remove an uneaten food. Small amounts should be fed through out the day - trying to aim for 4-6 feedings, this will keep the med in the system on an even keel. Because the food is new to your fish he might not eat readily right away but give him a bit of time and keep trying.

[broken record here] Just remember, water Q is the key to success when treating an ailing fish, stay ontop of it... don't need to go test happy but a small percentage a day goes a long way and as much air as you are able to push into the water as possible without making a boiling pot!

[marla]

Thanks Terri, I love the support I get on this board. You and Jackie are always here and to a novice it means alot. So here goes one more question, maybe the answer will make me feel guilty but it will also aid in my knowledge. I have been using regular table salt, it's been handy I always have a lot on hand. Question on another board I had been doing a search and someone said it can be used but the non iodized and no non caking agents. Well I looked at mine and it does have an ingredient yellow prussiate iof soda, I'm assuming it's an anticaking agent. So did I do harm to the fish by using this?? I went down to Petco and bought some Dr. Wellfish aquarium salt (I know kindof pricy) On the label it says to use 1 Tablespoon per 5 gal. now I used 3 Tablespoons just so I wouldn't over do, figured I could add more. You are right I don't have a salt meter or kit. But does that seem low I had been using 5Tablespoons of the regular salt per 5 gal before, is this stuff stronger?? Also everyone says use the cheap softer salt, how do you measure that out without a salt testing kit or meter. On vacation so tommorow we have plans to go north to my husbands brothers farm for a visit. I'll have time in the morning to get some things done to this guy if need be. Thanks ever so much for your (and Jackie too) paitience with all my problems, I am learning and most of it is sticking in this old brain.

[Terri]

Salt is a whole topic on it's own... a long time debate over which salt is best to use. But it's understood that YPS is a no-no, any anti-caking agent, YPS just happens to be the most commonly used one. Prolonged use will harm your fish, so they say. Do a search on KV for YPS and you'll find plenty of explainations as to not to use salt with this additive... REC did a good write up.

Save your money and go to the grocery store, pick up a 2kg bag of table salt - iodine is no biggy, the amount in the salt is very small and won't harm your fish. This is fine for QT purposes.

Marla you need a test kit for salinity, eyeballing can lead to adding too much or not enough to do any good. No two "tablespoons" are alike - unless you are using a measuring spoon for cooking. It's 3 Tablespoons per 5 gallons to equal 0.1%; this is dosing for 3 treatments over 3 days(or every 8 to 12 hrs) to equal 0.3%. (OIY I hope that is right, it's been awhile LOL)

Softener salt comes in varying degrees of make-up. Sifto is the one I buy most often as it's readily available here(little chunks). This is where you NEED a test kit or meter.

There are certain tools ponders need to have on hand as you know, number one purchase should always be waterQ test kits(or meters) SALT included.

[marla]

Terri, again thanks. I wish I had known about the anticaking agent before using it, I feel guilty for not asking enough and not knowing enough, but I'll get over this. If I harmed the little guy hope I can turn it around now that I have more knowledge under my belt. If not I'll know more next time going in. I'll try to at least get a salt test kit in the morning before I leave and get the salt up to .3%. Also get some better salt. I have lots of things I need to get for this new hobby, didn't realize how much different this is then my aquariums, theyr'e virtualy hassle free compared to this.

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, other types of slat that can be used are rock salt - the type you put on the sidewalk, hard to get this time of year and often a bit dirty but no agents in it. Kosher salt, pickling salt, sea salt from the bulk store - although if it is free flowing and not clumped there I'd figure it has YPS added. and some of the water softenening salts. Like Terri I use Sifto but I do believe this is a Canadian brand and not marketted there under that name.

A slat meter is well worth the money. Lets face it, you only use it when the fish are sick and that is exactly the time you need this to be accurate. Drop test kits are good but they are a nuscience to use - 30 drops for 0.3 salt...

[marla]

OK more trouble, went to feed the fish in the big pond, noticed at least 4 goldfish with a bump (like underr the skin) and or very small sore all of them at the base of the top dorsal fin. Is this a parasite problem. No luck at getting a salt test kit yet. Did find some canning salt with nothing added though. Am leaving in about 1/2 hr. for the day so if I don't get an answer soon I'll check when I get home.

[Jackie Ramo]

Odd that they would all be in the same place on each fish... Have a look to see if they are rubbing against something when eating... edge of a pot, sharp rock, piece of driftwood.... You will have to sit and watch them for a bit but see if there is a favourite feeding spot where they are pulling at algae or nosing around where they could rub that spot on their bodies.

This doesn't mean it isn't a parasite, just odd that its the same spot in all the fish, mostly parasites hit different places....

Wait for Terri's input but I'd consider using the desa fin in the pond.... if only to knock down any fungus that may attack the sores. If the wounds are open like the tub fish, I'd not use the desa fin... tricky stuff, not being there to see oneself.....

[Terri]

No need to treat if we don't know what is going on... ;-) For the moment keep the desafin on the shelf. Take Jackie's suggestion, grab your choice of beverage and go relax by the pond,... watch your fish. If they are rubbing on something it needs to be removed.

Lumps and bumps... well there are a few causes for this in goldfish. Dermal masses, Papilloma virus, Carp Pox, Lymphocystis, bacterial infections, parasite infections(internal worms).

I have two wakin with papilloma right now, it's ugly... not really much to do about it though... they are otherwise healthy.

If you're up for catching a few fish Marla, some picture's would help.

[marla]

Ok, I'm going to try this again I went to minimize the page and closed it instead. Before we left at 11:30, my husband made the decision to add the Desafin, he said better safe and nip it in the butt then be sorry and wait. Didn't alieviate any stress for me. When we got home tonight I checked them out and fed them gave them the med. food. Also noticed that one of the little ones in the small pond also had a spot. Yes strange, all the ones with spots are in the same general vacinity at the base of the dorsal or just on either side of the dorsal. Some are just a bright red spot, some are white in the center and red around it. Tried to catch a couple but the only one we got didn't have a spot, and then he went and flipped out of the net and landed on the stone patio, got a scrape out of that though :( . I did get the little one in the small pond, took pictures and let him go. Big mistake I put him back before loading them :shock: , well I forgot to use macro so they are VERY blurry but I attached one just to give you an idea. The Shubb is still surviving, however not eating or maybe one or two pellets a day. I added a heater today because the water temp was low. My husband says if he survives his name is "Spent", because I've spent to much time, spent to much energy, spent to much worry and spent now over what he cost. :lol: We'll try to catch some tommorrow and get a better pic. If you think of anything else to do with any of our crew let me know, don't want to go through what I've been with the whole bunch of them if I don't have to. And no spots on the 2 koi that I can see.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0727arbor20008.jpg

[Jackie Ramo]

Sounds like your fish are giving you a real adventure Marla... nasty ungrateful things. Sorry about the pic but that red spot could be anything including pigment change...

Since the desa fin treatment has been started we'd best wait and see if it works.

[Terri]

These are shubbie babies? If that is the case then it could be just pigment, colour changes are about right for that size.

[marla]

No these are just feeder goldfish we started with last year (except for the little one he came this year) Took some pics this morning in the pond. If you can get zoomed in there not to bad. If you still need I can try to catch. Noticed one has 3 spots. The QT'd Shubb I have my doubts on survival, won't eat at all, just lays toward the bottom by the airstones. I hate to see it happen, but that's my luck. If the goldfish would die it wouldn't be as bad for me, but don't want the koi or other shubbie to get this. My husband is almost ready to throw in the towel, didn't think it would be so much work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/fishspot.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/fishspot2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/fishspot3.jpg

[Terri]

The first photo, at the end of the dorsal there is a white spot with something white sticking out from it....? I've never seen anchor worm in person but from other photo's I've seem of similar "visual" that appears to be what it looks like...? Is it possible that the other spots you are seeing are from anchor worms that have left? Great shots but a real clear close up of those spots would be better, I know means more netting... Geesh, all this makes me want to hop on a plane and just come see for myself :grin: would be easier...

[Jackie Ramo]

I don't think the grandson will share his pool Terri :grin:

I see the spot you refer to and it does look like anchor worm. Marla, you will be a champion fish catcher at the end of all this :lol: yes we need a closer look to be sure.

[marla]

Ok, dummy me did catch some and even took them to the pond store when we picked up the pump. Guess what forgot to get pictures. They did not know what it was but said most likely parasites. They said if we wanted to try and catch them then put them in a soulution of 1 cup salt to one gal water for 4-5 seconds and then back in the pond. Took forever, but caught all but one big goldfish and the 2 koi, they were so fast. We even took out all the cave rocks but no luck. All we did was stir up the water. The pond guys said add salt to the pond, they said 34 cups (the pond is about 2500-3000 we never metered). They said it's fine with the Desafin. But maybe I should wait a week? What actually will happen if you mix the desafin and salt? All the double answers makes my head spin. Anchor worms, will the salt bath I gave the fish kill the ones on them? But then what about the ones in the pond, and where did they come from? Would it be good to feed a anti-parasite food for a short while? The shubby in the tub is still with me, swimming around but won't eat, just spits it out, even tried rolling the pellets in garlic juice no go.

[marla]

Did some reading on Koivet, and if it is anchor worm looks like dimilin would be best suited to treat. One thing I couldn't find is, is this deadly, and how fast? It may take some time to find dimilin, still can't find a simple salt test kit alone, most people tell me there's no such thing, I'd have to buy the meter. May come to that yet. Also didn't notice if I could use it with the Desafin. The bottle says re use after 7 days so I'm thinking by then it should dissapate, so that would be next Weds. I appologize for all the dumb questions and keeping you both so busy but I need to learn alot. Thanks. going to Green Bay today so won't be home till later.

[Jackie Ramo]

The Desa Fin people say not to use with any other meds including salt... one would think they should know how their product can be used safely. I wrote to them ages ago and asked. Although some have used it with salt and had no problems others have burned the fish... not good. Dimlin is the best for anchor worms. Never heard of salt killing them.

But anchor worm is a worm that attaches itself to the fish... did you see this on any of the fish you caught??? Since there is no pic !bonk what do the sores look like?

[marla]

Thanks for the answer Jackie, maybe we will wait to do any salt treatment to the pond. Hope that we did a quick salt bath and back in didn't hurt them. They did seem good to day. As for the sores, it seems like it starts out as a small read sore, then raises like a pimple will and then you see the white stringy thing. Does that still sound like anchors. One actually looked like you could see one under the skin surface. The salt bath was more for general parasites. I'm going to catch the little guys in the small pond tommorow, and do a salt bath, I know the one has it. It had the red spot, this morning it was quite raised and you could see the white pin spot starting, to me that seems like it's coming from within but I could be wrong. I will try to get pictures. We got back tonight at about 10:30 pm and I checked on the tub shubby and he had lost his fight,I'm sad but had concieded that this would probably happen he did look quite lethargic this morning when I did a water change. So now I have this new batch to keep my mind and body occupided. Like I said my TLC doesn't work to well, hope my luck changes fast. How quick will anchor worms kill if that's what it is??? I guess because the Desafin is in there I have to wait till at least Weds to do anything that will be a week, will they last that long or do I need to do something drastic??? Should I feed them the anti-bactirial food to be on the safe side or wait, what about anti parasite food?????

[Terri]

Sorry about your Shub Marla :(

Medicated food is not called for right now so don't start with it, your fish do not have bacterial infections. Antiparasite foods do not cover Lernea so far as I'm away so NO to that one too(more geared for internal parasites like nematodes).

(Anchors Away - Dimilin Diflubenzuron Lufenuron Chitin Synthesis Inhibitor for Argulus, Fish Lice Anchor Worm Ergasilus) Dimilin is your answer, if you can see the worms this will nuke 'em good - and it is quite safe for your fish.

Do a couple of partial water changes on the pond over the next few days to reduce the Desafin level and start with the Dimilin.

This is why we don't throw chemicals into the pond with out knowing what we are treating for ;)

[Jackie Ramo]

I'll second Terri here. Try and get a pic but it sounds like anchor worm. I may be wrong but I think they start small and grow and then drop off to breed.

[marla]

I hated to see the shub go also, but now my main concern is the rest of the fish, I'll get somemore shubbs after everything is clean or next year, only have one left unless some of the new babies are a cross. I caught the little guy in from the little pond, he has two one top one bottom as do a couple now in the big pond. Remember he is only a couple inches or so, so once I downsize the pics may not be as clear. The second one I tried to get inventive and used a magnifing glass !wow! also but only the top one shows a little, maybe I broke them off handling the guy so much. I came to the same conclusion on the antiparisite food when we read the label so we didn't buy it I was just checking. I will try to locate some dimilin localy today if possible otherwise I'll have to order it. Let me know if you think it's anchors before I treat or if you think I should add something with the dimilin. As for the salt in the pond why is the pond store pushing it is it really necessary, we do have plenty of the canning salt we can add if we really should?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0729GreenBay0015.jpg
and the magnified view, not much different
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/2005_0729GreenBay20029.jpg

[marla]

after reading this one I agree it's most probably anchor worms, say what you would notice first is the red bumps. http://www.texaskoi.com/Articles/fish_parasites_101.htm

If I start with some partial water changes how much and could I start the dimilin before Weds If I can get it before. Boy learned a lesson on adding meds again.

[Terri]

Ah Mr. Jordan's article, good read for basics.

I would say after 3-4 partial (10%) w/c that it should be fine to add the dimilin(Anchors Away). Follow the instructions on the package to the letter.

It used to be that salt would handle anchor worm, and probably still does to some extent... but it takes much longer than dimilin and there is no guarantee that it will get them all...

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla, back from out of town and looking for an update here.

[marla]

Jackie hope you had a fun filled time. We ended our weeks vacation with our refigerater taking a crap :eek: . Add that to the pump, the anchor worms and the poor dead shubunkin I'm almost glad we stayed home and didn't take a major trip, or what a mess to come home to :shock: . Any way, I have some dimilin on order, thought it would be here today but no such luck. I was surprised that I was unable to find this either, but maybe tommorrow. The fish all look surprisingly well, only one has more then one spot. Maybe the salt bath I gave them did a little something, or the handling knocked the worms off. Hopefully after treatment the small sore areas will heal without a problem. I need a break!!!

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla you certainly do need a break. Not the best of vacations for sure. Bet you never thought you'd be so happy to get back to work !rofl

[marla]

Ok, I'm in a quandry. Got the dimilin today a bottle treats 1920gal, I bought 2. Of course not knowing we never metered our water, now of course with meds I see the need. I have always used about 2500gal as an estimate. The pond at the longest is 22' the avereage width I'd say is 13-14' and the average depth because of shelves is 1.5'. Now if you do the little formula things it could be over or under. So should I just add one bottle and then retreat in 14 days like it says with the other and play it safe or should I use more then one. I did add one today, I really don't want to over dose. Wish I would have known how important metering is, the things you learn afterwards aghhh.

[TASSAJARA]

Marla,

I know this won't help right now, but when you get your salinity test kit, or a digital salt meter would be better, you can use it to figure out how many gal. of water you have in the who system. It's not as accurate as a water meter, but when you have the pond full already you can use this method to come close enough to use for most meds. That would include the water in the pipes, filter and pond. Some people do the math on the pond measurement and forget to add what's in the system. For most people this would not be a factor but it should be considered

Hope things turn around for you and start heading UP
michael

[Jackie Ramo]

Marla to make it evenmore difficult, if the system is dirty the meds don't work as well either... anyway, you have done what I would have recommended so keep an eye on the fish and relax.

Along with Michale's suggestion Roddy Conrad also posted a way to use baking soda to measure volume. Had a computer crash since then and haven't needed it, koivet I believe is the site with the info.

[TASSAJARA]

I tried to find Roddy's artical about using baking soda to figuer out volume but had no luck. I did find one on volume from Eluned, he is a KHA in the St. Louis, Missouri area. Hope it helps.

Eluned

For irregular ponds (which are the norm), the educated don't guess - they measure the baseline salinity, add a weighed amount of salt and then retest salinity. (I've never experienced the shift Ken describes or heard from others who have run into that issue.) Baking soda and KH measurements have a much larger error margin (since the tests are less accurate than salt meters, the weights involved are much lower and because carbonates are consumed by the biofilter) but are another option. The real pros can sometimes come up with good guesstimates when they visit a pond and take their own measurements, but the Koi Health Advisors are taught to use change in salinity before making recomendations on pond treatments. Dimensional calculations CAN give you an idea of how much salt to add, so are not completely worthless.

Increasing the salinity by less than 0.1% isn't a bad thing, since it will get diluted by water changes and rain. At that level it gives protection against nitrIte spikes, but still permits use of formalin. Knowing your pond's volume is important - so you are not adding salt for no reason.

[Jackie Ramo]

Michael, I can't get the KV search engine to work anymore either and REC is tired of listening to me complain about it :roll: BTW Eluned's name is Lynne she is a very knowledgable person and a great resource on KV.

[TASSAJARA]

OPS, tks for pointing that out, my bad.

Should have checked HER background.

Give me ten wacks with a wet noodle !bonk

[marla]

This is all so interesting, I need to spend more time reading and less time chatting. Tonight I noticed NO MORE WORMS this morning one of the fish still had one hanging but you could tell it was dead, kind of yellowed and dangling. I'm to happy for words :smile: , I will retreat like the bottle says in two weeks. Only one fish still has a very small sore, and I'm going to keep a daily eye check on that !wow! but I'm so thrilled, I solved a problem. Better get a grip on my self something could sneak up on me again :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

A job well done Marla. Trust me, we all feel that way when the fish suddenly become well again because we made the right choices. This doesnot mean we don't lose fish as some are just too weak to survive yet others have a strength that defies logic. Makes the hobby so facinating.

So put Santana on real loud and dance that happy dance :smile: