Catching wild koi

[Dave in Innisfil]

As previously mentioned, I've met someone with a mud pond full of wild koi, some possibly exceeding 24". Predation in the pond is severe, and the fish are really spooky. They'll respond to food thrown in the water, but disappear to the 12' depths at the sight of someone on shore, in a boat or holding a long handled net. I saw someone on TV using a super-flexible fishing pole and barbless hook, but they did comment on potential damage to the sensitive mouth of the koi regardless. I've watched the game warden electronically stun fish for census reasons, with apparent and reputed no ill effects, but am leary of mixing electricity and water for ANY reason. By the end of August, the pond dries up considerably, but you would need snowshoes to walk across the soft mud that surrounds the deep centre at that time, and steel leggings to protect from the many large snapping turtles that also reside in the pond. He's managed to borrow some perch nets, but wants to catch the smaller koi and leave the bigger ones in the pond who suffer less from the many predator. The local herons visit regularly, and he's too kindhearted to use extreme measures to discourage them.

I'm thinking maybe a smelt dip net might work better for what he wants. Any better idea's ?

[Busy B]

A seine net?

I'm not familiar with a perch net altho those are small fish right? And a smelt net...same thing?

Dip nets around here are a 5 foot circumference and would take alot of manpower to sweep the water with..

A seine net would be most practical depending on how big the pond is. At least you could get them into a smaller area to be able to 'fish' them out :wink:

[GregBickal]

Can you get ahold of clove oil in gallon jugs :wink: j/k Since they come up to feed, mabye you could give them some kind of pill to knock them out :grin: :-?

[Jackie Ramo]

On another board a while back they went to rescue koi in a large pond that was overstocked and the koi were free to whoever could catch them but most were looking for the biguns. They finally used the barbless hooks to catch them. Got a few by nets but most were line hooked. Siene nets are only good if you can cover the entire area. the little ones swim out.

[PhishisceneKane]

As previously mentioned, I've met someone with a mud pond full of wild koi, some possibly exceeding 24". Predation in the pond is severe, and the fish are really spooky. They'll respond to food thrown in the water, but disappear to the 12' depths at the sight of someone on shore, in a boat or holding a long handled net. I saw someone on TV using a super-flexible fishing pole and barbless hook, but they did comment on potential damage to the sensitive mouth of the koi regardless. I've watched the game warden electronically stun fish for census reasons, with apparent and reputed no ill effects, but am leary of mixing electricity and water for ANY reason. By the end of August, the pond dries up considerably, but you would need snowshoes to walk across the soft mud that surrounds the deep centre at that time, and steel leggings to protect from the many large snapping turtles that also reside in the pond. He's managed to borrow some perch nets, but wants to catch the smaller koi and leave the bigger ones in the pond who suffer less from the many predator. The local herons visit regularly, and he's too kindhearted to use extreme measures to discourage them.

I'm thinking maybe a smelt dip net might work better for what he wants. Any better idea's ?

As co-owner of said pond, I can happily report that the water level has receded to 'almost extraction point'. The nets are not going to work, Dave...they're just too quick.

I'm still stunned by the 'he's just too kindhearted' comment. If you could have seen him the night Jurassic Park Heron showed up, you'd have thought Cromagnon man came to a PMS party. All I heard was "OMG...that thing's got a 9-foot wing span...and IT'S EATING MY MONEY!"

Not in the least impressed by the black koi that seem to predominate the pond (I'm sure these have a Japanese name, but I sure don't know what it is), but on closer inspection, many of these particular fish are 'butterfly or angel' koi, so it may be worth keeping a few.

[Jackie Ramo]

Welcome to the board. We're glad you have popped in.

Got any pics of the mud pond??? Fish pics?

I agree, I doubt the net would work for little guys.

[PhishisceneKane]

Thank you very much for the welcome, Jackie.

Seems to be a lovely place to float and learn.

No idea how to insert some pictures here...but I'll work on it, as I have a few I'm proud of.

Best,
"Kane"

[marla]

Welcome to the board, as for posting pics, use the manage attachments button below the submit reply. Then browse through your files and click upload. They will show up as thumbnails. If you want an imbedded pic, use something like photobucket.com to upload your pic and then just right click the img tab and copy and paste. There is a size limit so you may have to down size your photo. :wink:

[Dave in Innisfil]

"Phishi"......I almost fell off my chair laughing so hard when I saw that. You certainly qualify for that handle.......

:lol:

And thanks for the reminder about the waders. In them so much this spring they need some of the liner patch applied to a few seams. I've become accustomed to "mind over matter" when it comes to leeches in our pond, but your 20 lb snapping turtles are pond guests I'd prefer we turn into soup or relocate to Queen's Park.

[Dave in Innisfil]

A quick pic to try Marla's recipe

[Jackie Ramo]

Good job Dave, You've done it!!! Pretty waterlily, is it really pink?

[Dave in Innisfil]

Our ponds as they are today...less another large goldie thanks to ravens this morning.

Testing....1...2...4...oops...been unemployed too long

[Dave in Innisfil]

As an ex-Canon digital imaging equipment sales representative, I knew it couldn't be rocket science to get pic's on the board. Just had to wait for the "Pictures for Dummies" version to be released. Thanks, Marla.

No, Jackie, it's actually a white lily, with pink tones near the base of each petal. The remaining lily pot in the top pond produces pink blossoms, and I'm still waiting for a yellow flower from the lily I acquired from a local beaver pond, but it's down to one leaf so I'm not very hopeful that my transplant attempt was successful. Lots more where it came from.

Bubbles, our latest and only koi addition, is camera shy and pretty spooky. I'll try and post a decent pic of him when/if I get one before the local wildlife do. Mink trap was sprung last night but no villian. And Phishi isn't kidding when she claims to have a heron with a 9 foot wing span, I've seen it. Huge and smart. Stayed outta range of a couple of forty-something rock throwers....LOL

[Cinnamon]

Dave you pond looks great!! Congrats!

Phis Welcome to the board! !welcome I know from visiting a couple of mud ponds they put heavy white string about 5' or 6' off the ground around the perimeter of the pond. That is what one fish farm I know of does that is close to the Gulf Coast near us. This will deter big herons from swooping in. I don't know how large your mud pond is but this works well there. They have to have a broad area to swoop down. Something to think about about.

I am not that knowledgeable about harvesting fry from a mud pond. What I have read they use a large minnow net. Put a few people on it and slowly walk to one corner. The minnow netting is smaller holes so it might work for the fry. You can always cull out the big ones as you said you wanted to leave them in the pond.

[Terri]

Wow Dave, pond is looking good. Congrats on your new little koi :-)

Welcome to the board Phishi :grin: Looking forward to seeing some photo's.

Like Cin suggests, a minnow net would work. Seines come is several different mesh sizes, we just got one from AES that is 1/4", works for koi fry.
You could try Fish Farm Supply in Elmira, ON Greg should have what you would need to seine that pond. Don't have their tele# handy atm but buzz me an email and I'll hunt for it.

[Busy B]

[QUOTE=PhishisceneKane]
If you could have seen him the night Jurassic Park Heron showed up, you'd have thought Cromagnon man came to a PMS party. All I heard was "OMG...that thing's got a 9-foot wing span...and IT'S EATING MY MONEY!"

QUOTE]

Another member with a clever sense of humor:)

Glad to have you here Kane...!welcome

[Dave in Innisfil]

Phishi, tell Terri I've got literally miles of 3/8" yellow poly that Tina would be glad for me to donate.......Me ? I'm still endorsing the loan of my spare slingshot .......Please don't ask why I need a spare slingshot.

:twisted:

See ya soon if your pond is evaporating as fast as ours.

[Wulff]

As usual Im late to a thread. :)

For the fry and small Koi a minnow trap or 3 would likely be your best best. They can be found in various sizes and could easily trap fish upto 6 inches (im guessing). For the larger fish, dip nets similiar to those used for smelt fishing might do the trick but I doubt it.

On "fishing" for them with barbless hooks.
Caution.

"Carp fishing" is very popular in Europe and is gaining popularity here as well. The likely hood of doing any permanent damage to the Koi ( excluding an accidental gil hook) really depends on the equipment used and how you handle them. I've never intentionally fished for carp so I can't speak with any great authority on the mater but I suspect general safety rules for large fish apply.

True carp fight like stink and are bulldogs. As they arent considered a "game fish" I doubt much research has been done on Catch and release techniques and post release mortality. One of the largest dangers when fishing for "large" fish is lactic acid build up and stress placed on the fish. Depending on how long it takes to actually "land" the fish and how hard they fight the danger is likekly there that they might not survive even after an "apparent" release due to the stress and lactic acid build up. Musky are famous for this. The heat isn't going to help at all as many fish depending on their systems are already heat stressed from high water temps.

So, can you attempt it?
I don't see why not. Barbless hooks wont hurt them so long as you dont rip the hook out of their mouths on the hook set, but more importantly Id say make sure your using the heaviest tackle ( rod/line) you can get. Carp and hence Koi would be tanks imo and youd want the heavier tackle to manhandle them in, so as to not stress them out ( lactic acid buildup) over a 10 minute+ "fight".

Dave the long rods if by long you mean 10ft plus are typically used in situations where the fish have excellent eyesight/water clarity and neccessitate a lighter line so as to not spook the fish. The "rod" in that case takes the tension that your lighter line cant handle. Example when fishing for steelhead/chinook salmon I use a 14 foot "noodle" rod thats extremely limber and 4 or 6 pound test line to catch 10 to 20pd fish. Any heavier line and fish see it, and won't "bite".

Youd not want that, plus I doubt Koi/Carp would be "line" shy. Go heavy with strong line and a rod with good backbone to litterally manhandle them in.

[PhishisceneKane]

Thank you all for the lovely welcome.

The koi depicted in the pic were wild-caught (by hand) from a large amusement park. We were asked to remove some for them due to overpopulation and the ensuing die-offs they sustained. However, they never invited us back, ostensibly because their rides were less than busy that day because their customers had more fun watching my husband and his friend fall all over themselves retrieving errant fish.

These fish finally ended up residing in a large, spring-fed pond we manage north of us. Unfortunately, I feel the water is too cold, and never achieves the change necessary to get them motivated to breed. Additionally, they co-habit with bass...not the greatest incentives to multiply probably.

Dave: I'm seriously wondering WHAT we're going to do with miles of yellow poly? Wrap you in it maybe? A Heron detractor??? lmao

Wulff: we've tried baiting a small minnow trap with food...suspending it with a pool noodle and sending it out there. However, no success to date...the food disappears, so do the fry. Not sure if the hole's too big or what, but they're sure spooky.

[Wulff]

How many Koi are you talking about, any idea?
Dip netting at night might work.

With regards to the bass in the pond.
Atleast in the wild carp and bass compete for spawning grounds and they tend to spawn around the same times, often with the carp winning out as they can litterally destroy the habitat bass preferr and create turbidity thats detrimental to other species.

[PhishisceneKane]

Wollf:

Probably in the neighbourhood of 1,000 to 2,000 young (including one and two year olds...probably no longer 'fry' stage, as such.

The problem is that this would be classified as a vernal pond, and comes firmly attached to conservation authority overtones, so I have to be extremely carefully about what I do with regard to making the pond any deeper. But, as the pond culminates on my property, I have stocked it with my koi, which I know is a no-no in places where the fish have any possibility of escape.

The pond evaporates, seeps and/or near disappears (almost to 2 feet from the spring's 16' depths) by mid-August. This year, the water is dissipating at an alarming rate, however.

Additionally, as it is a mudpond, we not only have to wait for the water to recede, but for the mud to harden to a point where it is safe to walk on.

We sat out there last night and discussed the merits of having water brought in by truck, if you can believe it, to sustain the large breeding adults after we harvest the young. Last year, we ran the garden hose through the mud and attached a monster air bubbler...seemed to keep everyone alive.

My husband has now set his sights on the kids' pool, which sent our children screaming from the back 40.

We operate a koi retail business from our home, so housing the young and having a sell-off of them will not be a problem.

Presently, I guess the keyword is "patience" and maybe "slingshot" for the heron.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Wulff.... The rods they were using an that segment of the OFAH's tv show allowed extensions to be added to the handle until they were almost 20 feet long, and they used a rubber line. I use a 12' light action rod for steelhead, and an almost equal length on both my fly reels. I've caught carp before, and they're no slouches in the fight department. As an avid muskie fisherman, I know too well the problems with catch-release mortality. I thought that acid build up was species specific, but probably best to err on the side of caution and try and leave the big fish alone.

Phishi.........didn't I tell you my other snapping turtle catching technique ? Involves dragging someone we both know slowly thru the pond. We'll attach dozens of long lines to him and charging for the priviledge of participating in "Scrim Dunk 2005". I almost feel sorry for the turtles.

[PhishisceneKane]

Well...The Black Lagoon pond saga continues, and you'll never guess who showed up at my door today?! Out of the blue...Mr. Bylaw Enforcement Officer...claiming we had a complaint lodged against us with regard to the 'large body of stagnant water' on our property, and he was here, forearmed with questionable knowlege on WNV, to inspect it.

I cast some food on the water...the theme from Jaws played disturbingly in the background...dorsals broke the surface...the water then roiled, boiled, and coloured some alarming shades of white, yellow, gold and red. I then asked him how long he felt mosquito larvae would last in his esteemed opinion. :grin:

Shortly thereafter, he went running for his municipally-funded subcompact, but not before I had a chance to go environ'mental' on his head.

(Dave, I truly think the snapping turtle bait called them, though I'll never be able to prove it. I mean, being an "expert on sewers" and all, and having some hairbrained scheme to fill it all in for us, providing we did all the work and he supervised.)

[PhishisceneKane]

Wullf,

I tried again last night with the minnow trap/pool noodle...once again, no food and no fish in the morning.

But I did watch a 20 lb. snapper slowly circle the trap and inspect it...so I'm not sure if I'm feeding him or the fish ???

Since the rain today, extraction will be delayed, but at least they're not all going to be gasping at the top of a foot of water.

[Jackie Ramo]

Peronally I've never had luck getting fry or goldfish into the minnow trap but the big guys come by and suck all the food out of the holes.

[Dave in Innisfil]

After ya'll gave me chit for putting feeder goldies in my pond, I tried also in vain to minnow trap them. Damn things have grown so big now they won't fit in the opening, so I'll net them when I do my fall pond clean.

Too bad for the enforcement officer not adding to his quota, eh. I wonder if it was one of your dog-walking trespassers who dropped the dime. With the appetites of your fin-kids, mosquito larvae would have to be born with the speed of sailfish to reach adulthood.

And you had the opportunity to be rid of that 20lber................He'll have eaten Terri's new truck and your in ground pool in lost koi revenue by the time I get him...... :lol:

[PhishisceneKane]

Black Lagoon...look stagnant and unproductive to anyone?

[Jackie Ramo]

Absolutely, people should not be allowed to have black lagoons unless everyone can have one :grin:

[PhishisceneKane]

Hey Jackie...what IS that fish you have as a buddy icon???? It's gorgeous!

One more minnow trap cast this afternoon...this time the old boy baited it with 'the big stuff', and we watched the large koi suck it all out...you were right, Jackie. We sat there and forlornly counted up all the money we didn't have, tho.

When we first started off with this property, my husband only wanted to stock it with 'expensive, good quality Kohaku'. Sorta glad I didn't follow his advice, because it would have made their inaccessibility all that much more difficult to swallow.

[Jackie Ramo]

That is the famous and not so lovely GG often called Georgie Girl or fondly Garbage Guts, Queen of the Pond :lol: A gift from a friend when I lost most of my fish. She keeps small children from swimming in the pond

http://jackieramo.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSCN3578.JPG

[Wulff]

Koi sucking the food out. Last thing I would have suspected.
Phisi you might have to try dip nets.. Maybe you can lure some over the net and to the surface by throwing out food?.

Im surpised you had to contend with a by-law officer :(

Dave, yeah different species have different tolerance levels and while people do actively fish for carp I've never seen or heard of a study on post CnR mortality rates for them. They arent a game fish, so no-one probably cares enough to do it. All I know is if your tackle is too light, your looking at a long drawn out "fight" to land one. Even with heavy gear Ive watched carp anglers fight them for 20+ minutes.

/ps we need to get out on the fly sometime or cruise L. Simcoe shores for SM. Picked up a water skeeter recently so I can pack a boat in my car and put in almost anywhere :grin:

[Dave in Innisfil]

We have deeded access to the boat launch and beach 200 yds from our home, and welcome friends and guests to visit almost anytime. I'm new to Simcoe, having spent much more time on Rice or Scubog. Right now, we'd be fishing blind, but modern electronics (mine need a new transducer) can pick up the weedbeds and drop offs. The best bass fishing is in lower Cooks Bay to Bradford, with sizable pike lurking in the depths too. The crappy bite has come and gone, and the perch are kinda whitish in this heat. Weedless fishing tackle is definitely in order, and surface lures save a lot of cursing. Lots of lily pads, and the duckweed is pretty extensive. Shallow water bass this time of the year taste yucky everywhere. Although I've rigged up a canoe special for fishing, I don't fish much until after Labour Day except as an excuse to depart from my Honey-Do chores. Boat traffic on Simcoe is pretty intense right now, and small craft even close to shore or in the river get tossed around pretty good. Someone's coming later today to buy my hot rod Chevy, and I'm hoping to detour some of the proceeds to a real boat. I'm looking for a 17 - 20' bowrider with a 50 - 100 hp motor, big enough for 4 adults and two large dogs.

[Wulff]

Shame that small craft are being forced off the waters in so many lakes Dave. Ive given up on my canoe. Besides being a bit of a chore to load and transport, too many days have been cut short by wind and traffic. Thats alot of effort to go through only to have to turn around pack up, load and drive back after an hour or two.

The skeeter im hoping can handle it a bit better and still allow me to haunt quiter bodies and bays besides being easier to transport. Scugog and the Pigeon are likely area's where Ill go alot.

and sorry for getting OT ;)

[Dave in Innisfil]

I've rigged my canoe up for the early morning and dusk bites, when boat traffic is minimal. I built an aluminum trailer to pull behind my lawn tractor, installed a 12V wiring system to run front and back lights, with an auxillary outlet for my 1,000,000 candle watt flashlight, and a Bass Pro Shop seat from my bass boat my ex's boyfriend now enjoys. I sold my Monte Carlo this week, and am shopping for a beater bowrider. Living so close to the lake and being shorebound is like being a kid outside a candy store with only a dime.

Our side of Cook's Bay is very sandy and very shallow until you get quite a ways out. At times, it's actually calmer in deeper water than in the shallows. It's not hard to walk out a 1/4 mile in some places and still be only waist deep. Great for the kids, but lousy fishing. The Keswick (east) side has all the weeds and excellant fishing opportunities, but few decent beaches for the kiddies. Unfortunately for me, I built my canoe trailer with small pneumatic tires unsuitable for use on the road. As funds become available, I'll probably add a suspension and 8" tires. My canoe modifications have made transporting it on top of my Explorer impractical. Besides, I've still got a perfectly good bass boat trailer sitting in my driveway (Ex took my/"our" bass boat, I got to keep the trailer....go figure how the courts determined that as an equal division of property.....Ooops....just venting....sorry)

Anyways....once I get something waterworthy, Wulff, we'll have to see about casting a line or two sometime. I hear the suckers are biting bare hooks where the Rouge passes under the 401......LOL

[GregBickal]

Back when I liked goldfish, we had found hundreds of them in this huge quarry. Well, being the DIY guy that I am, I got this silly idea into my head to try and devise a huge drag net.

So I build this think out of bird netting. about 20x20 and 3' deep. PVC pipes for the frame, huge scoup looking thing.

Got it in the quary, pulling it behind my 12' john boat with a little 5hp motor. WOrked pretty good, till it got caught on some debris on the bottom. Tore it up.

Never caught any goldfish of course....

We did end up catching them..... Waited till they were spawning, and just walked up and scouped them up. Half a dozen full grown fish in every swipe of the net....

Did I mention I hate goldfish now :smile:

[Dave in Innisfil]

Of the one hundred feeder goldfish I added to our two ponds as a test, we're down to less than a third. I've scooped out less than two dozen that died from natural causes, the rest were and are food for our local fauna. No mourning involved with goldies, but I'd soon be sporting a new coon skin cap or an Indian headdress should Rocky Racoon or Harry Heron re- develop a taste for my koi and shubs in our main pond

With lots of willows overhanging Phishi's pond, I can imagine there's quite a bit of branch debris down there to hinder dragging a seine net behind her john boat. I'm starting to wonder it Crocodile Dundee's tossing a stick of dynamite method of fishing might be her only solution......(only joking, Phishi, I'm a C4 man myself....LOL)

[Wulff]

Im supposed to goto Sutton next weekend for a half day while the family fem's do a shower. May try hitting one of the bays if it not too rough.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Lots of weekend warriors fishing docks and marina's. There's plenty of shoreline fishing opportunities, lots of structure and weeds, and don't forget the mosquito repellant if you're planning on any dusk fishing.

[PhishisceneKane]

Well...Terry went out and purchased a large dip net the other day.

We overburdened ourselves with peripheral equipment, and made our way ponderously out back to attempt to remove some koi from the pond.

"These are weighty fish for two year olds", we both thought, as we tried to pull the contraption above the water line.

Nonetheless, we pulled it up and had a grand total of 6 koi (nothing flashy), 4 painted turtles and one 20 lb. snapper.

We waited a little while. Second attempt...1 small koi, three painted turtles and ONE SNAPPER.

Third attempt...no fish...but ONE P*SS*D OFF Snapping turtle.

My apologies to Robert Shaw, but...."the net goes in the water, the food goes in the water, we go in the water...SNAPPING TURTLES's in the water...Farewell and adieu to the net". Although the snapper(s) wisely kept escaping before we could get the net to shore, I think the jaws, claws and weight were too much for the net...so now I have a large repair job on my hands before we can try again.

Next time, we go armed with protection.

[Jackie Ramo]

Phishi, I'm glad my challenge is just a bit of greenwate and not snapping turtles... or moose as Busy has. Did you manage to at least get the few koi netted out or did the turtle let them escape as well?

Any pics?

[PhishisceneKane]

Morning Jackie,

I'll get a disposable, waterproof camera on the next foray to Black Lagoon, as soon as I sew up the net, that is.

We did manage to put 7 okay koi into the holding tank, and are now treating them for parasites, just to be on the safe side. I'll try and get some pics of those as well...because, by the way the fish smartened up by the third dip of the net, I don't know that we'll get a whole lot more.

The C-4 is now looking attractive. And Dave's Scrimfest 2005 drag method for snapper extraction might be feasible as well.

I really am laughing about my initial question to the prior property owner several years ago...'do you swim here?' :-? Gawd, what an idiot I must have seemed like.

Moose?????????????????

[Jackie Ramo]

you've obviously not read Busy Bee's posts about the moose taking a regular bath in her pond.. see everyone's pond is different and has different challenges :lol:

[Dave in Innisfil]

I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in concluding that after you caught the turtles, Terry "re-located" them to either another wet spot or another stage in re-incarnation. I've seen snappers chomp thru a broomstick handle like it was a tooth pick, so no surprise here it on the state of your net.

Yesterday, Sonny and I spent an hour trying to remove shubs from our top bog. Our total, two shubs and about 10 walnut-sized snails, was hardly worth the effort, except for the laughs about something having the brain the size of a large grain of sand outsmarting us.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Dave's Top 10 Ways.......

1. Make sure you use inexperienced net staff
2. Make sure you use a thin long net
3. Make sure the beer store is closed
4. Keep 20lb snapping turtles within the net
5. Wear rubber gum boots, and wait for the "sheep boots" jokes
6. Use a ricketty row boat with only one ancient canoe paddle
7. Select a pond where the mud has vise-like properties to give the turtles equal opportunity to both escape and defend
8. Rely on the koi to NOT jump over the net.
9. Rely on the koi to NOT swim under the net

and

10. Make sure your spouse is standing on the bank with a camera shouting encouragement to the fish and the turtles............

[PhishisceneKane]

Roy Scheider....'you're gonna need a bigger boat, right??? Right?"

Killin' myself laughing here. I read this with tears rolling down my face at all the lost revenue. :lol:

The 'tens' were actually rating the koi a respectable 7.5 for jump form, and the turtles got consistent 9's for 'caginess' and aggression.

rofl!!!!!

[GregBickal]

We went fishing for koi last weekend in a farmers pond. Used corn as bait. Caught 2 koi and several small catfish.. Threw the koi back cause they were UGLY!!

[Dave in Innisfil]

Believe it or not, but that line from Jaws was just one of several suggestions hurled at us from our spouses from the safety of the bank....so, being the obedient spouse I am, jumped on the Harley as soon as we got back, rode to Orillia, and bought a 16' Starcraft bowrider with a 90 HP Evinrude. Now I just have to wait for Terry to build us a boat launch to his pond.....

Sitting on my porch one dusk, I saw our new koi jump from one side of our main pond to the other. It was the first time I'd seen koi jump. Phishi's koi jumped gracefully back and forth across the net like Olympic high jumpers. Thanks for the warning, ya'll.....LOL Their 24"ers opted to plow thru Phishi's net, and I'll take full responsibility for those that swam under due to my inexperience in proper koi netting technique. No sooner had we returned to the picnic table to plot our next move than the koi returned to the shallows to taunt us.

Apologies to Phishi's koi wrangler for the photo. Most of my friends get upset when I post their faces on the web.....something about enough photo's of them already on post office walls. Much harder to identify "Canada's Most Wanted" from just the backside.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Phishi's pond threw us a loop by coming up three feet in level after the big storm that dropped two tornado's in her area. Our two previous attempts at netting the koi had been far from successful, and the general consensus was we were wasting our time with that net and technique. Turtles damaged the nets to the point they were retired, and back on went the thinking caps.

Phishi never posted the events that dictated a change in our planned harvest. While "exercising" her pet ducks in the pond, one was grabbed by the bill and almost killed before her very eyes by a large snapping turtle. Although suffering a bad injury by being dragged under by its head, the duck did survive, but sent a message to all of us that danger lurked not only in the depths of the pond, but on the shoreline.

As the window of opportunity to remove fish for selective breeding and potential resale was passing us by, we sadly committed to our last resort option. After pinching the barbs down on trout hooks, we managed to catch a small quantity of fish on worms and salmon roe. A few of the fish caught showed scars of previous escapes from predators, and in turn were culled for turtle bait. All afternoon we watched our turtle baits being dragged around, but none embedded themselves on the treble hooks. One 30lb snapper had already been caught, and we've seen a much larger one still lurking. I'm guessing it somewhere in the 50lb + range, definitely worthy of respect when anywhere near or in their pond. We also caught a few painted turtles to add some hilarity to our afternoon fun and dusk brought that 8' heron to spectate our efforts.

Phishi now has a small quantity of nice pond fish available to her customers, and I have several being treated with Desafin in our quarantine tank. We're hoping to either come up with a better plan of capture, or for the water in their pond to decrease significantly before making further attempts with a net. Either way, we're not giving up even if the fish are guarded by something that chomps thru 3/8" poly rope like string algae, has a shell bigger than most garbage can lids, and straightens 2/0 stainless steel hooks like they're dress pins. And to think I was worried about dragonfly larvae..LOL

[Jackie Ramo]

No wonder I don't swim!!

Glad you had some success at least. I don't think catching that turtue is going to be easy either.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Legally, we only have two more weeks of legitimate season on catching their turtles. With the weather changing, turtles will soon start looking to bury themselves in the mud for the winter, and it will be next spring before we can try again. The conservation authority will accept responsibility for re-locating turtles, if we provide them in a clean and healthy condition. A 50lb turtle is very old, and it didn't get that way by being stupid. I agree, catching it is probably going to equal or surpass the challenge of catching their wild koi.

[Jackie Ramo]

Do the authorities have any suggestions on how to catch them safely? Turtle traps???

[Dave in Innisfil]

The official method of capture is by hand (risky business for someone who enjoys playing guitar) or in a box trap, and then disposed of with a shot to the head or turn it over to the conservation authority for relocation. Our methods may be questionably legally, but safer for us. As far as we're concerned, we're fishing for carnivorous koi and catching turtles is an unpleasant accident (for both the turtle and us).

That's our story and we're stickin' to it.

[Jackie Ramo]

:lol: I was only thhinking they must have experience in removing turtles or at least supplying advice on how to do it. We used dead fish in a trap to catch them when I was a child. mind they were smaller turtles

[Dave in Innisfil]

Having a virtually koi-less koi pond, at first I found it hard to listen to some of you culling ugly fish. But some of the koi we caught certainly fell into that department, unfit for them to sell and too ugly even for me to love.

We found chicken/bird entrails worked best as turtle bait, but most often used the remains of bass and pickeral we caught. The added benefit of chicken livers was the occassional large catfish that augmented our tablefare.
Snappers are carrion eaters, and we've seen them munching on the rotting floating carcass of a deer. Most fisherman will share tales of returning to empty fish stringers left tied to docks and boats.

Because the size of our intended prey varies, a box trap opening the size to allow a 50lber would allow the more prevellant smaller ones to steal the bait and escape.

[Jackie Ramo]

One could start with the smaller ones and work up :)

Yes, lots of folks have had that surprise of an empty stringer in the morning. My dad taught us a bunch of new words when it happened to him :lol:

[Dave in Innisfil]

Phishi was pleased to report one of my new fangled turtle traps caught a 45 lber this past weekend. Imagine a turtle with a shell the size of your standard garbage can lid, and remember it can snap a broomstick handle like a toothpick. Now imagine it in YOUR koi pond. Welcome to their nightmare.

[Jackie Ramo]

Good news that the traps are working. Even one less makes the fish that much more safe. In Keifer's thread he talks about draining and treating the mud pond where he grows out his fry. Mind his ponds are artificial not natural.