Moving plants mid-season

[Dave in Innisfil]

Our resident pond plants are starting to come into bloom. We seem to have an over abundance of yellow iris, and a poor showing from the purple iris so far. Because of the pondmare, we mixed up all the plants from their previous locations, and Tina learned I couldn't tell an iris from a rush in the spring.

So, in growth, and desired bloom, some of our plants are going to need to be relocated. The yellow iris are blocking the view of the two waterfalls, and I'd like to re-locate them to deeper water. Some of the lily pots are doing better than others, and I imagine it has something to do with depth, proximatey to the moving water from the waterfalls, and daylight exposure.

The iris planters are currently about 2 feet under water, and I'd like to drop them into the 4 foot deep centre trough. But because they're already in bloom with many buds ready to blossom, I thought I'd better ask first.

So, what's the poop on moving iris and lilies mid-season ?

[Jackie Ramo]

I doubt the iris will like a 4 ft depth. You can move them to the centre area but they will have to be on a stand or plastic table. The are called marginals because the like their feet in water not their heads. I'm surprised they are blooming at the 2 foot depth. Yellow being more vigerous than blue is probably why they are blooming and the blue is not.

Lilies can bloom later and the deeper the sometimes the longer to bloom, also they don't like to be too near the falls preferring still water.

It takes a while to get the plants right. I move mine around quite a bit.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Something has been in our pond, breaking rush and iris leaves, which go yellow and become eye-sores. So, I went chest deep yesterday to trim them. The two iris planters (really just old Knob Hill Farm crates) contained plants that were formerly one large mass of follage growing on top of our pump in the 4' deep centre of the pond. I had to cut the plant into quarters to remove it from the pond this spring, and replant it into the crates. These I suspended on milk crates, so the roots are only about a foot below the surface. They're a mass of yellow blooms now, but still blocking my view of the waterfalls and causing calm "dead zones" of stagnation. Am I going to kill them by moving them, or just lose the present and future blooms. I moved some purple ones and they aren't doing so well a week later.

[Jackie Ramo]

Dave you can move the containers anywhere just keep the same depth within a few inches. Plants shouldn't even notice they've been moved.

[Dave in Innisfil]

OK, I'll try and keep the iris's at the same or similar depth, but they gotta move. We worked so hard to get the two waterfalls and surrounding rockery set up that it is a shame that from the main viewing area (MY chair on the porch) all three waterfalls are obscured by the two massive iris plants. Looks like I'm pond bound again in the near future.......Someone please pass the salt, works nicer than a cigarette butt at getting leaches off... LOL

[Jackie Ramo]

Yeah I am getting ready to do a major shake down on my pond but don't want to as it will look like crap for weeks afterwards... Maybe I'll wait till fall. I have reeds that don't flower and I want to replace them with iris. I have both yellow and blue but no energy to dig the reeds out of the rocks and try to replace them with these tiny plants.

I hate leeches!!!

[Dave in Innisfil]

After my unexpected "dip" into the main pond, it was too dark, rainy and dangerous (tornado sighted in vicinity) to fully evaluate and adjust my revised plant arrangements. While I now love the unobstructed view of the waterfalls, damn they're noisy....LOL. And I couldn't help but break quite a few iris and reed stalks. Ugly, ugly and uglier. And despite lowering the water level, untangling the lily stalks proved beyond the limitations of acceptable back pain. The resident parrot feather I planted too deep, the water bean now gets no sun, and the floating plants all accumulate at the base of the waterfalls. The contents of three large iris pots didn't survive, and now sit idle. As it's my weekend with my son, ponding will be limited to skimming the endless poplar blossoms that litter our skimmerless pond with white fuzz and stalks.

I'm wondering the fate of one particularly beautiful plant. It grew a single pinkish- purple blossom the size of a dinner plate, about two feet out of the water, and left a bell-shaped seed pot, who's seeds didn't germinate indoors. I've checked my plant books, but can't seem to identify it. Possibilities ?

[Jackie Ramo]

Now yuu are the envy of everyone, sounds like a lotus to me. Seeds need very warm water to germinate. I did mine in the Betta tank at 76F but I do think they need to be older than a year as well. They found them in the pyramids and they germinated after 2,000 years!!! impressive plants. Oh and they need to be scoured on the side as they are harder than rocks. Don't cut yourself!! can you tell I did...

[Dave in Innisfil]

Now you're making me wish I hadn't used all the seeds from the pod in my first attempt. This plant came up in late summer, and had huge leaves at first, and was quite the conversation piece as it rose above the pond level. The flower didn't last long, but was extraordinary and that's coming from someone who considers anything green and non-edible a weed. We could hardly wait to see what it was going to become. I've seen the dried pods in flower arrangements, but never a blossom that large. I can only hope that it's in one of the planters still in the pond, and not one of those I deemed as dead and removed. I'll check Tina's digital pic file and see if as usual she was the smarter one and grabbed a pic .

[Jackie Ramo]

The only hardy lotus I know is the native north american and it is yellow not purple... so not sure if it overwintered or not. One can always hope. Even the native needs lots of heat to grow and bloom, also they are heavy heavy feeders so if you see any round leaves, with the stems in the middle like a dinner plate and the water beads on it, start feeding double what you feed the lilies.

[Dave in Innisfil]

I didn't know you were suppose to "feed" lilies. Right now I've got three pink blossoms on the two ponds, and lots of lily pads. Even one of the pots I deemed dead ended up sprouting leaves in the inch or two of surface rainwater the pot held. My biggest problem is I had my lily pots too close to the surface and all the stems are tangled. I've given up trying to untangle them, as I seem to break more than I free. I guess I'm suppose to use plant food sticks or something ?

[Jackie Ramo]

Pond tabs are what you use. Special so they don't cause an algae bloom. My lilies are just starting to bloom so you are fine. Tangled leaves, isn't that normal???? :wink:

[Dave in Innisfil]

I found some tabs in our "inventory", tried, and mostly broke the tabs trying to push them into the pots. I'll try and remedy that problem when I divide them and restock the pots that had winter kill. I moved all but one of the lily pots from the bog into the deep centre of the main pond, and within two days they had grown enough stalk to once again have leaves on the surface. We have two colours of lilies right now, white and pink. I remove any yellowing leaves, but am I to also remove the flowers after they finish blooming ?

[Busy B]

I do Dave...once their done blooming they sink into the water and if left would just rot.

[Dave in Innisfil]

In experimenting with my floating plants, I can get almost 4' visability depending how and where I place them. The bad part of seeing down 4' is all those dead water lily leaves and flowers I didn't get out of the pond in time. I tried removing some, but as always, ended up with my lilies looking like a kitten played with a ball of wool. Untangling lily stalks is becoming a pet peeve right up there with them damn poplar leaves and blossoms from our neighbor's tree. My skimmer grabs the pine needles, but the poplar debris gets caught up in the lilies before they get to the skimmer, and sink in a day.

This fall I'm gonna re-arrange the plants, specifically the lilies, so they'll grow straight next year. Some of the ones I moved to deeper water mid-season didn't like it, and their leaves never reached the surface before they rotted. Others exploded with dozens of new leaves within days. Same with some of the iris. While I was told they only like their "feet" wet, we had amazing growth last year from those in planters 3' down. Some I moved did well, others had lots of leaf rot at their new waterline after I moved them. And none of our lotus seem to have survived, what a shame.

[Jackie Ramo]

Cinnamon posted a leaf grabber she made to reach in to remove dead leaves, something like this may help get some of the dying leaves out. A clear path to the skimmer is pretty important if you get a lot of leaves and blow ins.

[Dave in Innisfil]

In trying to finish my underground electrical work, to finish one segment without a half day delay while I acquired more materials, I cut my Cinn-inspired leaf grabber up. I've been meaning to build another one, and guess now's as good a time as ever. My water lily placement somewhat inhibits the effectiveness of my skimmer, something I will change for next year. Right now the best leaf skimmer is the guy on the flagstone with the 8' pool net.

[Jackie Ramo]

:lol: Sounds like home Dave!! We do that all the time it seems or spend a lot of time running over to hd, which fortunately for us is just around the corner... still it breaks the rhythm of getting the work done.

[Dave in Innisfil]

OK, I'm trying what you suggested with my parrot-feather. They were almost 4 feet long, with greenery only on the last foot. I'm only trying it with one of my planters, just in case I screw up again. They're forecasting single digit temps here tonight, so I guess the plant season is coming to a close soon here anyways.

[Jackie Ramo]

Parrots feather is hard to kill, but don't feel bad, I've managed to do it :roll:

[Dave in Innisfil]

I'm thinking that my healthy population of string algae is giving me my 4' + visibility. My parrot feather was/is covered in it, as are the bases of most of my plants. There's plenty of oxygen in the ponds, both from the 3 waterfalls and from multiple stones and airlines throughout the two ponds.

The parrot feather seemed to spring to life and surface after I removed the heavy burdon of algae on the main plant. Most of the plant was underwater with few tips above. I cut the last 18" of each bough, and planted the last 6-inches back into a pot. I wasn't sure if the mid-section would sprout roots or not, so I've kept it submerged pending advice.

Should I be removing the string algae, or should I just put up with it as a cost of water clarity ? Remove what I can, and leave the inaccessible stuff until my fall cleaning ?

It's only really bad at the base of the two main waterfalls, both locations impossible to reach unless I go chest deep into the main pond, something I'm trying to avoid.

[Jackie Ramo]

Dave, string algae means clear water... its good filtration as well. Remove it if it gets too bad as with all things too much is never good but some is just fine.

[Dave in Innisfil]

OK, I'll concede that function has to take precidence over fashion at times. I cleared out a bucket full from the base of the waterfalls with my skimmer pole, the growth inhibiting my skimmer, and will leave the rest. In the trade off of ugly string algae providing the best visability of the season, I'll take the clean water.

[Jackie Ramo]

Don't think of it as algae think of it as water moss :grin:

[Dave in Innisfil]

Sure. Remind me to bring you some water moss to the next plant swap.

:lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

Sorry I have lots of my own... and now that the temps are a bit cooler, more each day... Last winter I could watch the string water moss grow in the ice

[Dave in Innisfil]

One of my favourite viewing times is just before I turn in for the night. After I turn off the bubblers, using a high powered flashlight I can clearly see right down to the bottom of the main pond. Interesting stuff I never planted growing in the silt. We've been discussing moving some of the taller and larger plants around to further enhance our porch viewing, and hopefully cut down on the kingfisher's paths of attack. But this would mean me disturbing all that clarity as I would. I can't imagine having some of the green ponds I've seen this past year, let alone one with only a foot or two visability.

[Jackie Ramo]

Can you shop vac the silt out? Was doing that myself yesterday and need to do a bit more today. Its been a while since I did this as I put my back out and have not been able to do it. The vac doesn't stir it up too much.

[Dave in Innisfil]

Another advice giver suggested the following. At the end of the season to remove the tops from my water plants, net out any floating plants and large leaf debris that has accumulated in the deep centre, and leave the silt at the bottom of the main pond for the fish to winter in. This will entail a 75% water change, so I'm not to wait too late in the season. Then, clean the upper bog pond entirely before freeze-up, plants and silt, and refill with fresh well water before shutting it down. Then, next spring, transfer all the fish to the bog pond to vacuum out all the silt from the main bottom pond and start new. Once the refilled main pond reaches the same temp as the bog pond, transfer the fish we want in the main pond (koi and shubs only, no goldies), and then plant whatever new bog plants we desire.

I'm very open to hearing criticisms and variations on these suggestions.

[Terri]

I can understand the "logic" behind leaving the silt.. but don't agree at all. While decomposing matter does create some heat is also creates gases and uses oxygen... and it's bacteria that do the work... so in my humble opinion it's not a good idea.

All the other suggestions are fine. It's best to go into winter with as clen a pond as possible, this will cause less issues in the spring(so no silt/detris). The water change out needs to be done is stages, not all at once, so over a couple of weeks work at vac'ing the bottom(main pond and top pond). You've still got a few weeks left before tending to plants(hardy's),... tropicals on the other hand, like hyacinth, taro, clover, etc., should be getting ready to either be tossed in the compost or brought indoors to over winter. Leave the lilies till the very end, I've found that if cut back to soon they pop up new growth.

[Jackie Ramo]

I agree with Terri, the cleaner the pond for winter the less problems you will have. Although I will say that since you are doing big changes anyway with the well water the 75% change will not bother the fish if done while the temps are similar. So you can do it all at once or slowly but done it should be.

As for plants, some don't like to be cut below the water line. For myself I leave most of mine up until spring, gives winter interest to the pond, mind any leaves that are dead or dying in the pond eg lilies come out but the grasses and cattails, iris etc stay. Also arrow and pickerel weed get cut back as they die down.

[Dave in Innisfil]

My wintering plan includes two pond-rated air pumps feeding two large air stones each about 18" below the surface, just off from the 4.5' deep centre trough where I'm planning on floating my Bickel-inspired pond vent. I'm hoping for triple protection from gas build-up, as well as double protection at providing air without recirculating the warmer deep water with the colder surface water. Any flaws in this logic ?

The silt in the bottom of the main pond is currently about 2-inches deep, less on the middle levels, and almost non-existant on the shelves. I can't even profess to having much algae or moss on the side walls, and have already removed much of the string algae. My shop vac won't handle the job, an $800 pond vac purchase is outta the question, but I could rent one locally for about $50 day. I'm still trying to find a used pool pump to make a DIY filter/vacuum, so I usually resort to using my large construction pump to remove the gunk that accumulates in the upper bog pond.