DIY barrel filter (con't)

[Ian]

http://www.backyardpuddle.com/diy/filter3/images/barrels_15_JPG.jpg
It's done. This is the barrel filter I spoke about in the barrels away thread. I'm much more pleased with this set up than with the pump fed barrles. Off to post some fish pics, I'll get back to this later... fish pics are more fun :grin:
http://www.backyardpuddle.ca/diy/filter3/images/barrels_15_JPG.jpg
http://www.backyardpuddle.com/diy/filter3/images/barrels_10b_JPG.jpg
bio chamber
http://www.backyardpuddle.com/diy/filter3/images/barrels_17b.JPG

[piscies75]

clever boy. that filter in the centre looks like you used your car air cleaner. lol........

[ozzyrockman]

Ian, the boss finally gave me a few minutes off so I wanted to ask a few questions. What is this diy system used in (i.e. pump/pond size, fish load, gravel or bottom drain, etc)? Have you noticed any changes in water perams/quality, how has maintenance been since installation, would you say you got the results you where looking for on this project and what is this system replacing?

Sorry about all the q's but it appears to be fairly easy to build and will work effectively especially with the answer removing the solids prior to the k1 media. All the supplies are easy to find a most building supply stores and from the looks of things the supply list is not too long and relatively cheap with the exception of the answer and the k1.

As for the Answer I take it you used up your garage already and don't have room for a machine shop to build as reliable of a unit as the answer? :) Allen

[Ian]

Hey Allen,sorry for such a late reply. Always on the run it seems :roll:
The DIY filter was built for a 2500gal above ground wooden tank that had a Nexus 300 and 410 Answer that I wanted to use for our outdoor pond. The edge of the tank you can see in the first picture has a 4" drain out the side that is externally piped inside the tank elbowed down sucking the tank floor like a bottom drain.
There are over 100 koi ranging 6" to 16" that were very patient through the change out and due to the same kaldnes being moved to the new set up there has been no water quality issues what so ever. The Barrels can not handle the same amount of K-1 as the Nexus did in the bio portion but due to the last barrel being K-1 static and acts as a final mechanical/bio. It's been a couple of weeks with a fair fish load in my opinion :grin: About as much koi food that most would feed in a season so far. The water is clear and healthy with the koi wanting to eat all the time. The pictures I recently posted are of the koi that are in this tank and I think it shows how they come out of the water to eat.
The Answer 325 was used in the barrel with a sequence 4200 pump. The pump is "T'd" with the skimmer to barrel filled with K-1. I was very surprised that the 325 and the new barrels could keep up with the 4200 on it's own which is far above the flow rate that this Answer is rated for. Just a bonus as the skimmer barrel can be flushed while the rest of the filter is running.
The drains of the barrels come out the sides due to the fact I did not want to cut the concrete floor prolonging the change over time a few hours. A design flaw I can deal with as it takes a little more of a rinse to get the waste out of the bottom. The drains on the bottom of the barrel would have been a better option but one can't have it all.
All the parts were from your Home depot hardware store like places, in fact that was the goal for me to build it with supplies only from such a store. This way anyone can build it and have big old healthy koi for years to come.
I get alot of stainless equipement built in the resturant construction field. The cost of an Answer is justified believe you me! As far as a work shop I've been booted. Being Man of the house must of been something before I was born.

Regards Ian (dear please check my spelling :grin: ..off to work)

[Terri]

bump....

More photo's here... http://www.backyardpuddle.com/diy/filter3/index.htm still working on finishing the written details.

[Koidaddy]

Terri, Awesome!!.... But where did you get those beautiful blue barrels?

KD

bump....

More photo's here... http://www.backyardpuddle.com/diy/filter3/index.htm still working on finishing the written details.

[NaturesCall]

Have you had good success with the K-1? I'm still trying to understand the theory behind it's use. Do you run the air under it al the time or only when cleaning it? does it knock the debris out of the water to make it sink? or does it get lost in the media?

Walt

[Ian]

Wow it has been two years already....old thread. At least we can say they are still running !dude A few minor adjustments have been made since but basically the same. Have reduced flow rate over time on the barrels and find 2500 gal an hour is more of the max flow rate. Wish I could have had the drains to waste at the bottom of the barrel instead of off the side due to the height of the tank and barrel are the same....did not want to cut floor...pump to waste sort of thing. Ended up pouring concrete at the bottom of the first barrel, the settlement/Answer screen barrel. That way the last two inches that would not drain is now solid cement and drains with a rinse of water.

KD...The barrels are food grade first off...know the source of the barrel second. Ya don't want to play with plastics/toxins and stuff. You would be surprised what plastics may hold. If you have ever had a fountain pop that was not root beer but sort of taste like it? Bet most people have! The plastic pop lines are bundled together and if root beer is in the bundle somthing leaches from one line to the other. This is from one plastic line to another! Seperate root beer from the bundle and there is no problem, seen new plastic soda pop lines the other day and how many layers of different platics that are incorperated for the protection from contamination.....opened my eyes to the fact that you just can not just rinse and clean and it will be fine.
Chinese resturants buy soya souce in bulk in barrels just like these and even Coke/Pepsi use these barrels for there surype(just don't use root beer barrels you will ruin the kois taste buds for life...every pellet tasting like root beer :lol:

[Terri]

Walt, yes, very good results with K1, we use it in all our filters for bio and mechanical (either before the bio or after for collecting fines).

In the bio chamber the K1 is constantly rolling with air/water, giving an optimal oxygen level and water to bio surface contact for nitrifying bacteria to flurish. This rolling action continually renews the biofilm on the outside of the media but allows the bio bacteria inside the spoke (wheel) to fully mature - so on the outside new 'hungry' bacteria is being encouraged to form while the mature biofilm inside is following 'natures course'. Also this rolling action (fluidized bed) does not allow any particulate the mechanical/vortex chamber might miss to settle out - whatever might get through into the bio chamber is broken down into smaller particles by the K1 crashing/rolling together and these pass through directly to the next chamber which has 'static' K1 to collect/trap/settle this out before the water returns to the pond.

K1 used as mechinal filtering works very well. The media compacts together (static) but because of it's shape it allows water to flow freely through without channeling yet traps the waste/debris in layered pockets created by the compaction. Does that make sense? To clean all that is needed is air - or if you're me, stick your arm in a give a swish or two ;) as the chamber is flushing to waste.

[RTFT]

Ian,
I have started purchasing items to replicate (somewhat) your barrel system. Do you foresee a problem using pickle barrels?
Should I use the black or grey piping for inside and outside the barrels? :help:
Also you suggested that I fasten the barrels together (to take up less room), in doing so, do you recommend putting a gasket btw the barrels. Therefore there will be a gasket btw the toilet drain and the 1st barrel, another one btw the barrels and a 3 btw the 2nd barrel and the 2nd toilet drain? :4eyes:
And last question- In my situation I need to pump feed the barrels (top pond is 4' high). My pump has 1 1/2 " connection. How important or can I just run a line to the barrels at that diameter or should I use 2" (how much does it help)? I calculated my head high and figure to have about 1700G at the input of the 1st barrel (using 1 1/2"). And here is what I don't understand, if the pump is 2900G/hr how can it pump that thru 1 1/2 intake and output? How much will my flow rate increase if I put a connector from the 1 1/2" to 2" or 3" right away? :thankU:
I appreciate any help you can provide.
http://www.bigstockphoto.com/thumbs/8/9/2/large/298233.jpg

[Ian]

RTFT, I don't see a problem with pickle barrels.

First off, at home depot the black 4" ABS toilet flange fits a 4" white PVC fitting like a joiner, and elbow, 90* 45* 22*. So in the plumbing isle the largest black 4" toilet flange you will find there will fit the OUTSIDE diameter of the white PVC 4" couplings.
Basically to take up less room putting the barrels side by side, touching each other, the toilet flanges are on the inside of the barrel (opposite of what is shown in the pictures above, reversed with nipple out NOT in) and the gasket is 45 mil EPDM pond liner or rubber gasket cut to fit the toilet flange size. This gasket goes in between the barrels to take up any gaps when tightening the two toilet flanges inside either barrel. So barrel one, toilet flange one goes inside, barrel two toilet flange goes inside, barrels are pushed together with rubber gasket in between with silicone - sandwiched in between the two toilet flanges. If that doesn't make sence, ... I can pencil you in for a Saturday afternoon ;)

If you pump feed the barrels and 1.5" is the pump, just up it to 2" if you can just after the pump or use a reducer at the 2" shower drain bulkhead fitting, in the same isle at home depot with a stainless steel screen. A lot of little parts and a fair bit of time and tools, and time spent confusing the poor kid at home depot LOL. So once you pump into a barrel as a pump fed system all the piping from barrel to barrel to barrel has to be at least 4", anything less will not handle your pump flow guarantee ya.

Your pump, any pump, if it's intake is 2" it always must be 2" or greater, the output of the pump if it is 1.5" will not increase any flow of the pump by increasing the diameter of the pipe. Restricting a suction pipe increases pump problems. The only reason you would want to increase your outlet pipe would be distance, elbows/bends, etc that would increase pipe friction in great output levels of flow rate. The head pressure to flow rate of your pump will still apply, a barrel system doesn't want any more than 2700 gph between connections anyways. After the pumps pumped into the barrel all other pipe work, connections, barrels must be treated like gravity fed so that that pump that pumped in a 1.5" or 2" into barrel one needs a connection of at least 4" to barrel two because that connection is gravity fed now (max flow 4" pipe gravity fed 4200 gph) So a 5000gph pump that is 1.5" and will over flow a barrel with a 4" connection. Does that make sence to anybody? I thnk I can almost confuse myself... :grin: spelling don't count does it?

[RTFT]

Ian,
Thanks, you always make it sound so easy. So white PVC it is. One gasket in between the two barrels only.
I love confusing the people at home depot as well, you think they are there just for that cause.
Once it warms up a bit I will start putting it together. Just for the record, I have created a vortex for barrel one (can't afford the answer but maybe one day), putting static K-1 in barrel two and K-1 with an air pump in barrel three. That should do it.

[RTFT]

Ian,

How will teeing off the 3 bottom drains and using one valve at the end for all three affect cleaning out the 3 barrels? Will I get the same suction/drainage? Is it far better to have separate valves as the barrels rarely need to be flushed at the same time?
Also in the barrel you used a 90deg elbow. would using two 45deg elbows increase the flow? Is it worth the extra work?
Thanks,

[Terri]

Not Ian but... almost as good ;)

You would be better to use a valve on each waste drain line. You do not need to drain the biological barrel often if ever,... and when doing so it should be just a quick flush until the water appears clear.

RE 45d fittings in the barrel,... no not really worth the effort/expense, the gain would be minimal.

[RTFT]

I almost have the design complete.

[Ian]

Sooooo ....dundas barrels has pictures yet? We need visual summer related activities about now....

[RTFT]

My cousin drew this up. Please ask if something needs explaining. The top of barrel 2 is addtitional piping to collect water evenly over the static K1 so we get a higher percentage of usage from the K1(what do you think, is it worth it?)

Also please suggest (from your experience) any changes to make this unit work better or easier to clean as I want to put the time in now to make it as perfect as possible. (ei, raise or lower entry points on the barrels)

Can I drain and leave the barrels outside for the winter? Or do I need to bring them in the shed (as the cold/warm temp will break the seals?)

Thanks.

[RTFT]

:yup:
I just got in and finally after several months of finding time and battling nature have the barrels up and running! (and remembered my password) If the weather is nice this weekend I will take some pics. I could not have done it with out you (Terry & Ian).
Thank you!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: