cement waterfall [Archive] - Koi Reflections Forums

fong11

07-01-2009, 03:33 PM

so, i'm planning on redoing my failed attempt of a waterfall/stream and just making a waterfall, but out of cement and not rock... and using the rocks i originally got for the project as filler for around the pond cause i need more rocks for that anyways.

i was wondering if anyone has had some experience with this and had some tips that would make this easier because i'd like to build it as close to the pond, if not in place, as possible.

i will be drawing a couple of pictures of a couple of possibilities, as i'm not sure what to do yet... and a layout of the area cause i won't be able to get pictures till around saturday cause i'm not home.

Jackie Ramo

07-01-2009, 09:57 PM

Most cement waterfalls I've read about have liner underneath but hey I have no idea. Waterfalls in general are not easy, I've rebuilt mine 3 times now and am still completely unhappy with it...

fong11

07-01-2009, 10:25 PM

yeah...that year i started i had re-done the thing about 4 times...even going with 2 water falls in two different spots at one time. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
then it went untouched for about 2 years. :frisbee:
and now i'm tired of looking at it... but it does have good moss growth:yup:

anyways... here is what i got to work with...

the red is where i can work because there is liner there already.
the purple can't be changed as it is now a rock garden and will be a splash zone so i can plant things there. behind the huge rock in the middle is a really tall ornamental grass, the orange, yellow and green thing is a japanese maple that will get pretty tall.
http://i39.tinypic.com/t7kbwl.jpg

overall, i'd like the whole waterfall to start at about 3.5 or 3 feet, but it will have a couple of steps on the way down....

so the first idea...lighter greys are higher areas and darker is lower...starts with a fast running stream ending with about a foot high drop for the waterfall.
http://i41.tinypic.com/2dlqfbb.jpg

second idea...is a main waterfall in the middle with a couple of smaller waterfalls that go off the sides.
http://i43.tinypic.com/15807yc.jpg

philly

07-02-2009, 08:18 AM

Building a waterfall is a touchy subject as each individual has a different idea and taste on what they would really like to accomplish, some want the waterfall feature to look good, some to oxygenate the water for the koi, others to blend in with the landscaping and many other reasons so the best thing to do is view as many ponds with waterfalls and choose how you would like it to look and what function you want from it. I myself have put up and taken down mine 3 times already and just might do it one more time later on. :yesyes:

Jackie Ramo

07-02-2009, 09:15 AM

Also remember a cement slide will not look very natural as you said cement with no rocks, most folks cement rocks in place. I would do it if I ever got mine where I liked it.

This is mine, a small holding pond at the top with three falls then into the pond, total height 4.5 ft. Looks much taller.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3278/2834387573_54235c891b_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3142/2834400819_c0428efa6e_b.jpg

fong11

07-02-2009, 03:24 PM

my neighbors friend works for a construction company that makes cement features and he made most of his pond sides out of cement and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, so i was thinking about asking him to try and get the natural rock look.

but, maybe making base structure out of cement and add rocks on top and cement them on to the base would be better. hmmm too many things to choose from.

nice waterfall jackie, do the arrowheads grow back for you? and do you find there is a lot of debris in the rocks? that's another reason i was thinking about making the waterfall out of cement, the rocks created little holes that had debris in it and it's a pain to clean, and you seem to never get it all and when you turn the waterfall back on the debris ends up in the pond :banghead:

Jackie Ramo

07-02-2009, 06:07 PM

Yes the arrowheads multiply every year. With the rocks set in cement then the debris can not get into the pockets. with this pond I don't really care as it is a lily pond and only has 2 wakin in it with some guppies, all which come out come winter.

If you have a neighbour with skills to help it would be better. Hubby and I are useless at this kind of thing. I let him do the patio at the base of this pond and he ruined the entire look of the pond by not listening to me. Of course I had to be away the day he and Joe did it.... this is where he almost ended up

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1282/1360507552_0a6039c223_o.jpg

philly

07-02-2009, 11:54 PM

I see Smith is in the hole did you put him there or did he go on his own free will. :)

Jackie Ramo

07-03-2009, 09:18 AM

I hit on the head with a shovel, not hard enough as he got up again:HAHA:

philly

07-03-2009, 10:49 AM

Now I see why you can't get him to do things, it's because there is some brain damage from being tapped on the head with a shovel. :lol:

Jackie Ramo

07-03-2009, 08:13 PM

I think it may be more along the lines that I am never happy.

philly

07-04-2009, 12:17 AM

I would think after a few Vodka you would be really happy. :yup:

Jackie Ramo

07-04-2009, 10:22 AM

Yes vodka makes me happy:yup:

Fong, I made deep pools in the waterfall that catch most of the mess, it is under trees and near the grape arbor so there is lots of mess. Next year I will probably set up a proper filter system for it. I may remove the bog and hook up a proper skimmer as well

marla

07-04-2009, 11:30 PM

I need to look at the placement of rocks in mine yet, as this year I'm loosing water I believe to splash. Things shift with winter, cleanout, etc. I do notice lots of wetness on the outer patio area. Mine is not how I had total envisioned but refused to redo it, all I've done over the years is added more flat stones lower to attempt to bring the falls out farther into the pond. Now that we redid the little upper pond, I have lots of flat lannon stone and will try to find some larger ones to replace the small lower ones.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/grandmavis/tractorshowAug2008221.jpg

philly

07-04-2009, 11:52 PM

Marla very nice waterfall and lots of flow the bulrush looks like it's at home on the side of the falls. :2cool:

Jackie Ramo

07-05-2009, 10:09 AM

Nice falls Marla, what size pump are you using?

philly

07-05-2009, 11:08 AM

The falls is flowing fast and lots of water gushing down I would say 4,000 gallons to 5,000 gallons would be my guess. :wink:

fong11

07-05-2009, 09:19 PM

i have cattails by my stream area like yours marla... except i just started have the kittens this year for some reason... and they were supposed to be miniature but i'm pretty sure they are regular sized as they are more than 6 feet tall.

hmm, so maybe i should get a bigger pump then... mines only 2,000.
or maybe i could just have a larger basin?

and i'm gonna try and clear the area next weekend and hopefully get a support structure up.

Jackie Ramo

07-05-2009, 10:04 PM

Yes, definately if you want good flow you will need a bigger pump, mine is 3,600 gph but cranked down to less as it overflows the top pool. I think I need some one who knows what they are doing to build it...

marla

07-05-2009, 10:28 PM

Well DH deceided that if he was going to have a falls it might as well sound like one and not a trickle.....It is a bit of overkill for the 2400gals we have....Philly you are wrong, it is a 7500gph, I think when it goes I would like to have something a bit smaller more economical to run also.

philly

07-05-2009, 10:32 PM

philly

07-05-2009, 10:36 PM

fong11

07-06-2009, 12:35 AM

hmm... i think i'll stick with my 2000, until i actually put it all together and running to see how it looks, then i'll just add a couple of pumps, cause i have a bunch of 500s laying around and if i like the "niagara falls" look then i can get a bigger pump at the end of the season.... and well... i kind of already have niagara falls in my backyard sooo i'm thinking a little less, even though the koi will probably like the faster flow.

and i think i will go with my first idea, with the little fast running stream and the a waterfall at the end (possibly 2), so i can cover up the back settling basin easier.

philly

07-06-2009, 12:59 AM

Judging from the area you live Niagara Falls is your back yard, actually I was at the Casino on Friday night and had dinner at the Lotus Garden over looking the Falls, very nice back ground for pictures. :)

fong11

07-06-2009, 01:30 AM

so you missed the canada day fireworks... and the fourth of july fireworks. that's too bad... hope you won some money though.

anyways... change in plans... not gonna start work on the new falls until the second week of august when i'm out of summer classes, my dad's idea since i kind of put aside the studying and procrastinate by doing other things. >.>
oh well... more planning i guess. and it'll give my neighbors friend some more heads up so we can work out a day for him to show me how to make cement look like rock. :)

philly

07-06-2009, 02:09 AM

Didn't win any money lost a few bucks so I stopped as I don't like parting with my money except when koi is mentioned spending is not too much of a problem. What kind of cement your friend recommend for the rock looks ? :)

fong11

07-06-2009, 02:26 AM

oh, haha, yeah... i'm the same...except with comics and koi...and school.
i think ever since i turned 19 i only spent like 20 at the casino...and i've been there like at least once a month.... i was there monday actually, had a really good steak dinner. :)

not sure about the cement, it's his own mix kind of thing, so i'll probably post the mix ratio for it when he shows me how in august.

philly

07-06-2009, 09:01 AM

Steak dinner sounds yummy, posting the mix would be great info. How long would you have to let the cement cure to minimize the leeching into the pond. :)

fong11

07-11-2009, 03:05 AM

yeah it was really good, uhhh Lucky's... it's in the old casino, their whole menu is pretty good, but their steaks are soooo tender.... my mouth is watering now, haha.

ummm i'd say about 3-4 days, but i'm going to put a sealant on it so the cement weathers better and less worry about the cement leeching in...

and the pic of the "stream" i started taking some of the rocks away so i have less to take away in august, which is why you can see the liner. it doesn't look very fast moving but it does have enough flow that the koi like to swim at the bottom of it, but have stopped doing it when i'm around cause they think i'm a raccoon for some reason.
http://i29.tinypic.com/1585v0h.jpg

philly

07-11-2009, 03:56 AM

Don't mention food you're making me hungry, keep us posted on your progress and don't forget the pics. :)

Jackie Ramo

07-11-2009, 10:51 AM

Those are nice rocks, lots of character to them

philly

07-11-2009, 11:45 AM

And they look very very heavy. :frisbee:

fong11

07-11-2009, 03:17 PM

haha, the best part about them is that most of them were free...
either found in my backyard or from family who was redoing their garden and didn't want them. :)

the only ones that weren't free were the flagstones... but i got them on sale.

the only ones that i need help moving is that big one behind where the water is coming from... and you can only see part of the other, which is on the right... those two are huge, but very nice looking. the others i can roll or lift in place.

Jackie Ramo

07-12-2009, 09:59 AM

Our first pond all the rocks were found rocks. We'd load up a picnic and the dogs and drive around the back roads of Ontario rock hunting. Even now we will keep an eye open for a new rock or two.

philly

07-12-2009, 01:15 PM

A few years ago I went rock hunting found some up in Georgetown loaded up my little Honda and brought them home quite a few car loads, my little car must hate me for all that weight it had to carry, up to this day haven't used even half of it as a matter of fact did give some away. The things we do for our ponds.

marla

07-14-2009, 09:33 PM

I think it looks good, do love the big rock there. All our rocks including the flagstone have been free.....get them at the farm or my parents tree line. We use a lot from the old milk house that dates back to the late 1800s.

fong11

08-14-2009, 04:41 PM

k... so update...
figured out i'm using parging (sp?) cement... it's normal cement but it has fiber glass particles in it so it's stronger and can be used on vertical surfaces... and it can be applied about 1/2 a cm and still be fine... ummm still in the planning phase though and don't know what colours i can use to dye it, probably going to find that out tuesday.

but i'm going to build the base/frame monday and tuesday... then lay the chicken wire sometime next weekend... and cement that week and then waterproof it that weekend and hopefully install before school starts... i'll post pics hopefully if i remember.

philly

08-14-2009, 10:07 PM

Give us the name of the company thet makes the cement and don't forget the pics. :grin:

Jackie Ramo

08-15-2009, 10:19 AM

Parging is normally used to cover cement not to hold things. I would not use this type of cement to build anything with.

fong11

08-15-2009, 09:47 PM

Parging is normally used to cover cement not to hold things. I would not use this type of cement to build anything with.

i've seen a few waterfalls that used parging cement and they've been running for about 6 years now. i guess it's ok to use because you aren't really holding anything together just smothering the chicken wire...

but i'll ask about it when i go to the hardware store to see if i should do a layer of cement then parging.

and i will find out the brand name for you phil.

philly

08-15-2009, 11:32 PM

Sounds like a plan. :yup:

Jackie Ramo

08-16-2009, 11:22 AM

""and it can be applied about 1/2 a cm and still be fine"" 1/2 a cm is not very deep 2.2 cm to an inch so basically half an inch. so it is just a covering not to hold anything and at that depth I think it would easily crack with the frost moving the rocks.

fong11

08-30-2009, 03:03 AM

soo... jackie we were both right... in a way... there are 2 different parging cements...

the parging cement i think you were thinking about is for fixing leaks or cracks...which you can buy in tubes/tubs

the one i'm talking about is specifically used for wire framing or building levees... and can be applied from as little as 1/8" to any number...

I'm using about 2 inches all together when i'm done.

the brand is called bomix phill, rona carries it...about 9 or 10 for a 66 pound bag. they also carry different coloring powders... black, red, chocolate brown and beige... canadian tire has liquid cement coloring for about $8 i believe, i don't remember which colours they have but there are probably the same as the powder at rona.

i have started cementing, and i have taken a couple pictures of the framing... i'll post them when i have it all together and just post them en mass. uhhh so far it has taken me about a good 4 days work to get the frame built, chicken wired and 3/4 cement finished (first layer, no color)... next i'm going to put the final colouring layer on the front portion and water proof that so i can move the waterfall in place so i can work by the pond without going in, and the rest will be done pondside so there is less the lift.

i figure when i'm done it should weigh about 550ish pounds...

fong11

08-30-2009, 03:52 PM

so a slight change of plans because winter is gonna be here in like 3ish months and i have to close the waterfall for the winter soon...and i'll be going away for school in about 1 week and won't have time to put the final layer of parging cement on and wait to water proof it, so it'd be better to wait since the winter might damage some areas.

i'm gonna finish the front areas so i don't have to work in the water when the water is freezing. then leave the waterfall in the garage until spring and move it in place and finish it for the summer.
so i'll post the pictures of the framing and what i have so far later tonight when i get home, instead of waiting till it's all done.

fong11

08-31-2009, 03:23 PM

picture time. :)

the framing...
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1511.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1513.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1512.jpg

the first layer of cement...
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1515.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1514.jpg

philly

08-31-2009, 04:00 PM

It's looks like you are well on your way with this project. I hope the area you're putting this is well settled otherwise you will have to make adjustments later on and it's usually a lot of work from my experience. :grin:

fong11

08-31-2009, 08:15 PM

yup... it's going where my old water fall was... which was sitting there for about 4 years now... so the dirt should be packed causer the rocks i used there somehow equal the expected weight of this heap of cement... but if not, i'm building a platform type thing so i can screw the back of the waterfall down so it doesn't tip forward easily. i think i got most of the bases covered...

philly

09-01-2009, 03:38 AM

The size of the waterfall you're building I don't think it's going to tip over for a very long time. :)

marla

09-01-2009, 10:10 PM

wow, can't wait to see it done and water flowing over it. Good luck.....more pics as it progresses.

Marg

09-02-2009, 04:56 PM

Two men to lift?
Hope it goes as planned.:yup:
Marg

philly

09-02-2009, 06:12 PM

I think it will take more than two as it's bulky when completed also as you install it into place you need to fine tune it so lots of help is called for. :yesyes:

fong11

09-05-2009, 03:00 AM

well.... i finished the front portion completely(?) there are a few areas i'm really happy with and a couple that could be fixed and i'm debating whether or not i should redo those areas...

so it's been sitting in the garage drying for the past 3 days so i can plan this whole move thing and i've decided that we're going to cart it in to place with two trolleys.... cause we have two industrial sized trolleys just laying around. so minimal lifting will be involved, just lowering it down from the milk crates onto the trolleys and off, hopefully. then i'm going to finish the top after it is in place and on sunday, cover it really well cause it's supposed to rain monday to wednesday and do the sealant next weekend if the cement is dry.

pictures hopefully sunday or monday... probably monday.

philly

09-05-2009, 08:37 AM

Well if you're going to repair any section now is the time to do it or you will be kicking yourself for it later on. things usually bug me if I know it's there and I did nothing to correct it but then again that me. :HAHA:

fong11

10-02-2009, 12:12 AM

yeah.... got busy a little... and i'm finally posting pics. :)

so when you last saw the hunk of cement it was in the garage... now it is outside and waterproofed. not fully running yet as i have to fix an area that is letting water flow too fast but i had it going for an hour and it actually looking. considering how out of place it looks. i need to fix the rocks at the bottom or just fill that in with plants... which has a high probability cause that would be easiest and less hassle, hopefully.

anyways... the pics. the pictures aren't the same size cause photobucket changed how to resize and i messed it up a little.
this is after my dad and i moved it in place. yup.... two people moved the whole thing.
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1519.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1518.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1517.jpg

and here it is fully cemented and... and waterproofed which you can't tell but the water just glides over the cement...if i had it going.
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1521.jpg
http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss318/fongj6/DSCN1520.jpg

i think it might look ok after i get some plants in and all that. i might/probably will add in a few rocks to make it look less fake... but i'm happy overall with the texture and the colour.

ok... so the texturing i did with leaves and branches and brushed them on the wet cement and that was it... and the colouring i just followed the directions on the tub and just didn't mix it in as well so it wouldn't be all one colour.

carcha koi

10-02-2009, 12:19 AM

Looks cool. Good job.

philly

10-02-2009, 12:34 AM

Fong it's looking great once the water starts flowing down the sun, rain and elements will give it some colors :yup: then it will blend in nicely, plants around the pond looks nice but your water is a little bit on the green side. :grin:

fong11

10-02-2009, 12:44 AM

thanks, yeah i know... this was about 3 weeks ago i think... water is clear now, so my dad tells me... haven't been home in a while. this weekend i get to clean the filter and get ready to close the pond for the winter now apparently cause we already had a frost. :crybaby:

oh... and possible pictures of the two koi i got at terri's... :)

philly

10-02-2009, 01:23 AM

Yeah! I started cleaning up the pond a few days ago it was cold then, :brrr: did a few water changes and today bought a brush then scrubbed the sides of the pond wall down couldn't see the koi after doing that :censored: but it will clear up a bit tonight then during the day with the sunlight will clean the spots I have missed hopefully if there's enough time before going to work install the BD extension. :grin: