Wakin for Me?

[Tom Donald]

Hi everybody - I'm new to this forum, thanks Tracey Jackie and Terri for helping me find my way here. I'm another certified goldfish nut and live rural in the south west corner of Saskatchewan, although I'm originally from Vancouver BC.

I've bred my own line of Hibuna for quite a few years, keeping a few youngsters each year and gradually expanding the family this way. I prefer the name Hibuna rather than "common" goldfish because "common" tends to be a demeaning term and to me there is nothing "lesser" about these fish. Recently I was able to add yellow Hibuna to my collection.

I have a garter snake or two that hunt my pond during the summer, I've found Hibuna are quick and smart enough that they don't tend to get caught or damaged by the snakes. Comets and Fantails are a different story though, the extra fins length of the Comets and slower movement of the Fantails make them likely candidates for predation.

Here's a question for you folks, does anyone know if Wakin are as quick and agile as Hibuna, or does their tail type slow them to the point where they are not likely to do well in my pond? Netting my pond is not an option, so I need to keep the type of goldfish that can live in harmony with snake predation.

Looking forward to lots of conversation on this board,

Tom

PS Can someone please advise me how to insert photos into the text? Thanks

[Jackie Ramo]

Tom welcome, glad you posted here.

IMO wakin are much like fancier goldfish because their tails slow them down. That waddle that makes them so cute to humans also makes the easier prey. They have good hardiness though to make up for the slowness.

[Tom Donald]

Hi Jackie - thanks for your reply. I was hoping that Wakin swimming ability would be the same as Hibuna because of their similar body length, and their small double tail would collapse as they propelled themselves forward. I have not viewed Wakin in a pond to observe them so only had the theoretical to go by. I admire and respect the natural body type of the Hibuna, probably I am best off staying with my color breeding with them. There is a lot of exciting color/pattern breeding of singletail goldfish in Japan, one could spend a lifetime on that subject alone. Tracey's rare color Wakin certainly have caught my attention.

Tom

[Terri]

Hi Tom, welcome to KF :) Glad to have you.

We have many garter snakes here and they like to hang around (or in) the water gardens. We've never lost a fish to a garter, I've never seen one hunt for the fish in the ponds only the frogs and water spiders. Creeps our visitors out when the snakes slither out of no where - especially in the fish house (where they hunt the mice).

I don't believe the Wakin are "slow" swimmers. They most definitely are not like other fancy varieties of goldfish which wobble through the water, nor like those with long finage. They may not be quite as fast or agile as Hibuna because of their tails but they can move pretty quick when it suits them too - their longer body shape and strong shoulder muscles are compareable to Hibuna.

What I do know is that they are "stupid" when it comes to their own safety. They are very friendly fish, they don't care if you are a human, dog, cat, raccoon, kingfisher, heron, whatever ... they will come to pondside to investigate incase food might be offered. They seem to throw caution to the wind, so to speak, out of curiosity. They do some what learn though, once a member of the school goes missing to a preditor some of other's know to take cover for a while until they feel it's safe... some are just (like I said) stupid and become the next meal. Their speed for escape has nothing to do with being caught, just plain dumb fish.

They are still my favourite goldfish. Second would be Shubunkin.

[Terri]

BTW, that is one awesome colour for a goldfish,... never seen a bright yellow one like yours before!!

You should post some more picture's of the goldfish you have been breeding :)

[Tom Donald]

Hi Terri - thanks for the commets, I'm very interested to read that you have garter snakes but no predation. My experience is completely the opposite, maybe the praire garters are different from the Ontario ones. :) I've adapted now so that we can all live in harmony, but for a while I was in a total rage every time I saw one because of my fish losses. Over the years I found many goldfish dead at the side of the pond that had been dragged out but not eaten. The snakes would curl up on the bottom of the pond and wait for an opportunity to strike, hunt the the goldfish from the edge of the pond, swim across the water then dive after them, all sorts of nasty memories for me. But, Hibuna are smart and fast enough to stay out of harm's way, so this is why I finally realized these "common" fish were actually the best choice. I ended up working with color and pattern on a natural form of goldfish and my problems were solved. I've attached two photos from the internet to illustrate snake predation on goldfish.

Your comments are encouraging regarding Wakin speed though, guess I'll just have to try a few and see how they do. My "local" pet shop, 125 miles away :censored: brought a few in this spring but I did not buy any because they were in tough shape, so hopefully next spring he will try again with better results.

As for the yellow Hibuna, yes they are a great addition to a pond. Many of the young fish I brought in from the pond this fall are coloring up now and I'm seeing lots of yellow ones.

I'm going to post a bunch of photos of what is going on with singletails in Japan. For anyone not familiar, this will be a welcome surprise :yup:

Tom

[Terri]

Well, I stand corrected about the Garters here,... Ian said he's seen a few in our fry ponds having the occasional dinner :mad: . I've never witnessed this personally. Even so, the Garters here don't hunt the larger pond fish (Hibuna, Wakin, Koi, etc)... their more into small bites like grubs, slugs, small frogs, tadpoles, baby mice, etc.
Common Garter snake in Ontario
http://nature.ca/notebooks/images/img/245_p_1997_221_p.jpg

So, our Garters here are different than yours out west :grin: You can keep 'em :grin:

When looking/selecting Wakin be sure to pay close attention to confirmation (body shape). You are looking for Hibuna type body with a symmetrical "butterfly" shaped tail (meaning not too big and flowy).
Side view of Wakin...
http://www.canadiankoiandpond.ca/wakin/images/wakin-2007_06.jpg

Looking forward to your pictures :)

[Tom Donald]

In my pond the garter snakes will take any of the fancy goldfish types, large or small, including Fantails. For Comets, with the long fins, they take some of the small ones by grabbing the fins, and with large Comets they don't catch them but they rip fins, taking out large chunks.

In my first post I attached a photo of one of my yellow Hibuna when it was small and before they all went into the outside pond for the summer. They're inside now for the winter and have all grown very well, but I don't yet have any photos of them. Here's two photos from Japan of what they look like as they mature, Lemon Hibuna, Lemon Comet.

Aren't they beautifull? :yup:

Tom

[Tom Donald]

Here's a few more photos of yellows. The photo "orangelemon" was taken at a goldfish show in the UK.

[marla]

Tom, welcome to the forum. As far as I know we have as yet to have a problem with snakes. I absolutely love the yellow, I've seen it before in pictues but am unable to find them here. I would love to have some, and will continue to look now that I see yours.

[Tom Donald]

Hi Marla - I'm glad to hear you don't have garter snakes. We have to keep in mind that we impose our aritificial goldfish puddles onto the natural world, and if we have predator problems, well, we just have to adapt somehow.

As for yellow Hibuna, we are starting to see them readily available in North America. Check out http://www.thegoldfishshop.com/ Already we are seeing variations on the theme. I believe the guy responsible here is Dave Mandley. I've talked to Dave on the phone in the past about other goldfish topics, he is a great guy and a super dedicated goldfish hobbyist/breeder. Check out his site to see what I mean, I think he's reasonably close to Wisconsin.

This color has put the "gold" back in goldfish :smile:

Tom

[marla]

Tom, thanks for the link.......I'm drooling, the site does not say location. Shipping fish makes me leary, I may have to look harder this spring when some of the stores get in the koi etc. for the season, may be able to find some Wakin also.