Our fishes temporary home

[Cinnamon]

We have developed a bad leak in our pond :( We are loosing 500 gallons every 12 hrs. We bought this above ground pool to house them in until we find the leak and repair it. I figure they will be in it maybe a month at the longest. We are building a DIY filter for it. We are using a 150 gallon fiberglass stock tank shown in the picture. I have ordered a mat for it. We are using pvc 4" pipe with holes in it and bird netting stuffed inside for the good bacteria to build in. This is partly the way we did the DIY filter for the pond. I just redid all the insides of that one a couple of months ago.

We aleady have the above ground pool sold as soon as we get finished with it! :yup:

[Jackie Ramo]

Sorry about the leak Cinn, any ideas as to the cause. Does it stop at 500 gallons or keep on lowering?

Looks like you have things under control for the fix.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I have NO idea why it started leaking all of a sudden. When I shut the skimmer down it keeps going down. Through a matter of elimination it is in the liner itself. I had a good tip gave to me yesterday though. To find the leak they told me to turn off all the pumps, add a heavy dose of Koi clay and watch it. It should point me the leak. I will let you know.

[Jackie Ramo]

I'm not sure the koi clay will help much but turning off the pumps to see if it is indeed in the liner will certainly help. Most common leaks are waterfalls, then skimmers, then plumbing, finally liner. Little critters have been known to eat their way through the liner.

[Cinnamon]

We have turned the pumps off and let it set. It still leaks down. I tried the koi clay. I found a couple of spots in the shallow end where it was concentrating. It was time for the fish to eat and they were huddle in the deep end so I turned the pumps back on. I will do another test this weekend. Remmy wants to be here when I do it again. In the deep end the koi clay stayed evenly dispersed. In the shallow end there were 2 places where it was heaviest and was pulled away from the walls. I let it set 2 hrs. We have reworked the skimmer several times. We bought a new faceplate for it. The waterfall is not leaking. I completely sealed it. I will let you know more when we figure it out.

[Jackie Ramo]

Finding leaks is hard work. You need to keep everything shut down until you stop losing water. One hopes the pond is not empty by then... Maybe easier to do with the fish out.

[Peg]

We had little critters eat holes in our liner last summer. Was a bugger to find out were. Turned out to be by the skimmer in a fold.

[clm]

I don't envy you. I've never had a critter eat through the liner either thank goodness. I sure hope you find your leak soon and it's an easy repair.

Cindy

[Cinnamon]

I hope we find it also. We have a couple of folds in the liner on the bottom. That in itself could cause a leak. With the koi clay the heaviest concentration was pulling to 2 areas on one fold. The koi clay in the deep end stayed pretty evenly distributed.

[Cinnamon]

This is the latest pics of the fish pool :lol: We are using a 2400 gph pump so we had to put 3 discharge pipes out of the filter so it wouldn't run over. At least they will have plenty of oxygen. We are moving the fish this morning. The temps between the pool and the pond have been running 2 degrees difference in the morning and 3.5 degrees in the afternoon. I was afraid there would be a big difference and we would have problems moving the fish.

[Peg]

Looks like they will have plenty of room for a temp home. Hope the move goes well.

[Jackie Ramo]

Don't forget to take pics as you move them.

[carcha koi]

Lokks good, swim anyone :lol:

[Cinnamon]

We have successfully moved all the fish. Some of them were hurt during the fish rodeo :crybaby: I added Melafix to the pool and will dose for the next 3 days at least. I can't see any visable damage on them now but I did some missing scales and also found some chucks of what looked like flesh with blood in it :crybaby: :crybaby: I almost cried. I kept watching them. I told Remmy I sure hope they didn't get red streaks from stress of moving them!! He said he was just worried about ME passing out with stress! :lol: I did take some movies and will u/l them to my video site this afternoon sometime. While Remmy was in there he spotted a BUNCH of babies. Halloweed spawned again yesterday too. We can't drain the pond until they get bigger!

[Jackie Ramo]

So, how long are you going to keep the fish in the temp tank waiting for the babies to grow....

Drain the pond, the babies will be in the bottom net them out with a fine net.

[Cinnamon]

I don't know how long they will be in the pool. They have more water in the pool than in our pond. They are doing good tonight. They even ate a little bit this afternoon late. I want the babies to grow a little more before I move them to a tank in my shop. That way they have plenty to eat in the pond. I am afraid if I try to move them now they might die in the tank in my shop. I don't know I am new with moving babies etc and feeding them.

[Jackie Ramo]

I hear you. Fry do do better in the pond although transferring them with the pond water should do the trick.

Did you move the filtration with the fish?

[Cinnamon]

No I am putting bacteria in it weekly. It is made by Microbe. I can't remember the name exactly as it is in the shop. The fish seem to be doing good. I think they like all that water they are in :)

[Jackie Ramo]

That bottled stuff is not the same as filtration Cinn. The fry can do without but the big guys need filtration.

[marla]

We used one of those blue blow up pools for our cleanout this year and the fish were so much more relaxed then small rubbermaid containers. Did you net the pool??? Good luck with everything, hope when you go after the fry you get most easily....they can really swim fast.

[Cinnamon]

Marla I had some shade cloth that I have put over 3/4 of the pool. It is 80% darkening. The fish seem great. I just went out and checked on them and fed them a little bit. Their appetites are good and they seem happy. Yesterday they were chasing each other around.

Jackie we were not able to move any of the filter media with the move. I have had the pool running a week and putting Microbe-lift in it as per the directions. The water is starting to turn a slight shade of green now that the fish are in there. We were suppose to move the plants over late yesterday but our helper never showed back up. I can't lift the pots with my back as bad as it is.

Here are some pics I snapped after we moved them. In the pool I can see how BIG they really are. They didn't look that big in the pond! :lol: The largest red and white butterfly is 32" long! He is HUGE! I measured the squares on the pool and the white lines between. I then counted them in the pictures and did the math. He came out 32". WOW!

I am about to u/l the videos also. I will come back and post a link when I am done.

[Cinnamon]

few more pics

[Koidaddy]

Nice looking fish Cinn - It's so hot here today, that pool looks inviting!

KD

:)

[carcha koi]

Some very nice Sanke in that group. Temp home looks great.

[Jackie Ramo]

Cinn the fish look terrific!!! Fat and sassy.

Without filtration you are going to have ammonia and maybe nitrIte problems. I'm not sure the mircrobelift products cover these things. Mind ammonia binders like prim and salt with home them along with good water changes for a while.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I also added Ultimate to the pool. That instantly ages the water and helps put the slime coat back on etc. The water is greener today. The filter we have is 150 gallon stock tank as you can see in the photos earlier.

Chris thank you on the compliment of my fish.

It has been really hot here but the pool is staying around 85* F. I think that shade cloth helps.

Here is the links to the videos I have uploaded.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2578439103869182459

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5607622139717915865

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2179812556052959986

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6914284288199108915

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1607719828338112704

[Rembrandt]

Yeah, we've been nervous over here too. Seems like the more we learn, the more we find out that we actually don't know squat. :alright: Well, that may not necessarily be 100% true but sometimes it sure seems to be the case.

I wish we had had more time to prep the 'emergency' pool but then I guess it wouldn't have been an emergency then. The bio tubes are going but they too are still young. Allen, if you are reading this, thanks again for that idea.

I still can't believe those fish have gotten as big as they are. When I lifted them out of the water.... THEY GOT HEAVY!!! :yup:

Thanks again all.
Remmy, signing off.
:grin:

[Cinnamon]

Jackie are you saying to salt the pool? I know the ultimate has ammonia binders. I am going to do a water test in the am and see where we are at. I hate doing a water change with the melafix in there. I put the last dose in today. Will that affect the water parameters?

The guy I buy my stuff from recommended the Microbe-lift bacteria. He said one of his customers swears by it. He orders it by the gallon. That is why I had him send me that.

[carcha koi]

Video is great. I see Rem is the one who went fishing. :lol: Salt is great. Helps to calm them and start the healing. As for Melafix??
Love the pool. Fish look happy and adjusting well.

[Cinnamon]

Chris yea he was the lucky one to wrangle the fish! :lol: I stayed behind the camera. I did manage to catch 2 small ones then my back told me to stop right then. I was done.

[Jackie Ramo]

Cinn, basically you have a new pond which needs to cycle, it can not cycle without filtration so there will be ammonia and nitrItes to deal with. One can not avoid it. I know you big filtration filter but it is just hoses run to the new pond and out again. REM can do it, I know it.

Stop with the melafix, which is terrible stuff at the best of times and not necessary in this application. It coats their gills making breathing more difficult, never a good thing.

If this was just for a couple of days you'd be fine but you decided to wait for the babies to grow.... so you have to make the temporary home more permament. OR drain the pond, grab all the babies you can, fix the leak and return the fish to their home. Remembering that the longer the filter is left without food the less it will be able to cope with the fish load when they are returned. A starved filter is not good.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I know basically it is a new pond. We do have a filtration system in the pool. It is new but we built the DIY filter when we set up the pool. It is in the previous pictures. The big black tub. There is a mat and media for the bacteria to build on. I stopped the melafix today. It was the last dose recommended. Should I go ahead and salt the pool?

[Jackie Ramo]

OK that is a least something. I'd also transfer some of the media from the established filter to the new one to give it a jump start.

A bit of salt once the mela fix is cleared. Not a medicine dose just 0.15% to relieve stress and help with the oxygen uptake.

[carcha koi]

I agree with Jackie. Drain the pond and catch what babies you can. Make the repair. You can always leave the babies in your temp pool until they get some size.
Love the video and the rope on the walkway/bridge. All the birds singing in the background are great. Maybe you can take a video when all the koi are back that way we can watch and listen through are long ........ winter. :doh: :lol:
Sorry for saying the W word.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie I am going to take some of the media out of the DIY filter in the pond. It is still running. I have one waterfall shut down. I cleaned it out good as it will set for awhile.

Chris I will remember to take some video this winter and u/l it. When ya'll are freezing I am still feeding my fish! :lol: Maybe that is why they are sooo big!

One of my babies from 2006 is 19" long! The other 2 from that year are right behind it.

[carcha koi]

Them Texans always bragging about size :lol: :lol: Like the change in seasons but willing to give it up. Join us for a winter, only seven months long :doh:

[Cinnamon]

Chris that is okay. Ya'll have that white stuff I don't like! I am a warm blooded Texan for sure! It is beginning to get too cold here for me. I couldn't make it up there with you!

[Jackie Ramo]

I'll have to try to do some video, thanks for the uploads Cinn.

Just a reminder that it takes a new pond 6-8 weeks to cycle, bottled bugs or no bottled bugs so test the water every day. This fish don't show symptoms until damage is done.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie the pool has acheived pea soup now. I have been doing water tests every day. I did about a 20% water change yesterday. It didn't bring the ammonia down. I have no nitrites or nitrates yet. The O2 and ph are very good. The fish still acting okay. I have had 3 spawns in the pool since Saturday. I had 2 to spawn yesterday. Needless to say they didn't eat. I haven't been feeding them their normal amount of food. I have been just feeding them a little bit 3 times a day. Should I do a water change every day? The melafix is about gone. There is still a little foam on the water from it. I figure I can do another water change and it will be gone. That way I can salt the pool then. Or Jackie should I go ahead and salt it? I know you said to wait until the Melafix is gone. The Ultimate I put in there is suppose to protect the fish from the ammonia. I hope it works.

[Jackie Ramo]

Salt away Cinn and add some dechlor or binder for the ammonia. Mine decided to start spawning today. Just Chiba so far and no eggs I can see but no one is hungry and they are chasing her...

[Cinnamon]

Pool is at 15% salt now. I added Amquel plus tonight. Remmy picked it up for me today. I did another water test today. The ammonia was still up there. There was just a trace of nitrates and a touch of nitrites. I use Tetra Test kit and the color was just a little darker than the lowest reading. I know when the nitrates start forming then the pond starts to cycle. It looks as though the pea soup may be clearing some this afternoon. At least I can see the fish when they come to the top! :lol:

[Jackie Ramo]

You are right about the nitrAtes Cinn but I sure hope the salt is 0.15% not 15% :frisbee:

[Cinnamon]

oops it is .15% I forgot the decimal point! Sorry about that. :)

[Jackie Ramo]

Its ok, those decimal points are tricky things, moving about all the time.

[Cinnamon]

Jackie does the Amquel mess with the water test? On the bottle it said that is changes some of them but is suppose to be okay with the kind I have. It said the test that goes from yellow to green to blue. That is what my Tetra test for ammonia does. Well ever since I put the Amquel in the ammonia has shown worse! I am going to do another water change tomorrow. I have another dose of it. Should I go ahead and put some more in? It was Friday when I put the last in the pool.

[Jackie Ramo]

Don't forget that the ammonia is building all the time, the amquel can only bind for the amount you add. So if the ammonia is 2 and you add a normal dose you have treated for 1 so there will still be 1 left unbound, if you treated last on Friday I'm not surprised that it is high as it is building all the time. You can not overdose the amquel but you sure can under dose it.

[Cinnamon]

Gotcha! Thanks. I will add another dose today. I am doing a water change now. :)

[Jackie Ramo]

Double up the dose!!

[Cinnamon]

Jackie is it possible for the pool to have cycled in 2 shorts weeks? A week ago Thursday my ammonia was 1.5. I ran of test kit and Amquel. I bought some on Saturday. I put the Amquel in on Saturday afternoon. Monday I did a water change and a water test. It shows Nitrate 12.5 Ammonia 0 and just a tad Nitrite. It was just a little darker than the <0.3. All Petco had was an API ammonia test kit. I guess one is as good as the other. It is compatible with the Amquel. So far the ammonia is staying at 0. If it has cycled in 2 weeks that bottled bacteria must be great! It still looks like the black lagoon though :( The only time I can see the fish is when they come up to eat!

[Jackie Ramo]

All things are possible but if you have nitrAtes than the pond is cycling.

Watch for pH swings with that green water.

How are the fish doing, or those few you can see :frisbee:

[Cinnamon]

The fish are fine! Always starving. I am able to spot them all at feeding time! They snow no adverse affects. Now I think I have good news on our leak. I let the pond sit for 10 hrs. It never dropped from this one point. Now we know the leak is in the wall not the bottom of the pond. All we have to do is search above the water level as it is and we should find the leak. This being said, it means we don't have to move the babies out to fix the leak! :yup: So a fix is going to come soon :)

[Peg]

Hi Cin,
If you can't find the leak by sight. Mark a line where the water stopped, then drain out 3-4 more inches, clean above and below the water line with a scubby and rubbing alcohol to remove the all the gunk from the liner. That may help you to find the leak.

[Jackie Ramo]

Good news indeed nothing worse than a hole in the bottom of the pond.... Glad the fish are doing fine in the temp home.

[Cinnamon]

Alcohol won't hurt the babies in the pond? I know it evaporates fast. As long as it won't hurt the water for the babies.

[Jackie Ramo]

Alcohol won't hurt the babies in the pond? I know it evaporates fast. As long as it won't hurt the water for the babies.


???? :frisbee: I think the babies are too young to drink

[Cinnamon]

:lol: !rofl