Prazi

[Peg]

PRAZI - 100 GR TREATS 10,000 GALLONS
Prazi ( Praziquantel )( pratz-eh-KWON-tel )
Praziquantel ‘Prazi’ is by far the most gentle, yet effective treatment for flukes available. The real bonus with ‘Prazi’ is that when you treat for flukes it also rids the fish of any internal parasites or worms.
* One treatment, not two* No water changes needed
* Safe for all species of non food fish including Orfe, Goldfish and Rudd.
* No filter or reef bio-filter effects
* Deworms cestodes, anasakis, capillaria and other intestinal parasites as well!

‘Prazi’ is extremely effective for the treatment of external flukes, liver flukes, internal parasites and internal worms in koi, goldfish and tropical fish.

‘Prazi’ is a one time treatment and because it is so gentle, it does NOT require any water changes after treatment and you do NOT need to bypass your biofilter.

Prazi also will work with any amount of salt in the pond and it is not water temperature dependant.It is also 100% ‘legal’ unlike some of the grey market compounds.

50 gram bottles (Treats 5,110 gallons)
100 gram bottles (treats 10,220 gallons).

Pros
Safe, one dose, no water changes, very effective, and no reef or filter effects!

Cons
Slightly more expensive that the more common, more dangerous preparations which require multiple doses, water changes, or which may be hazardous to Discus, Goldfish, Catfish etc..

[Ian]

PRAZI - 100 GR TREATS 10,000 GALLONS
Prazi ( Praziquantel )( pratz-eh-KWON-tel )
Praziquantel ‘Prazi’ is by far the most gentle, yet effective treatment for flukes available. The real bonus with ‘Prazi’ is that when you treat for flukes it also rids the fish of any internal parasites or worms.
* One treatment, not two* No water changes needed
* Safe for all species of non food fish including Orfe, Goldfish and Rudd.
* No filter or reef bio-filter effects
* Deworms cestodes, anasakis, capillaria and other intestinal parasites as well!

‘Prazi’ is extremely effective for the treatment of external flukes, liver flukes, internal parasites and internal worms in koi, goldfish and tropical fish.

‘Prazi’ is a one time treatment and because it is so gentle, it does NOT require any water changes after treatment and you do NOT need to bypass your biofilter.

Prazi also will work with any amount of salt in the pond and it is not water temperature dependant.It is also 100% ‘legal’ unlike some of the grey market compounds.

50 gram bottles (Treats 5,110 gallons)
100 gram bottles (treats 10,220 gallons).

Pros
Safe, one dose, no water changes, very effective, and no reef or filter effects!

Cons
Slightly more expensive that the more common, more dangerous preparations which require multiple doses, water changes, or which may be hazardous to Discus, Goldfish, Catfish etc..

I just want to know,... has anybody found this stuff doesn't work? .. or is it just me?

[clm]

I've used prazi pond in the pond and have found it worked wonderfully for a suspected fluke problem I had a couple of years ago.
First off, I did do a 25% waterchange prior starting the pond treatment.
Mixed it with proform-c, so did 3 proform-c only treatments first for 3 days and followed with the prazi mix on day 4. Repeated the prazi mix again 4 days later, no water change in between.
Had no issues with the fish using it, they flashed a lot for about 15 minutes after the prazi mix first went into the pond the first treatment. No flashing after the second treatment. Left the bog filters running the entire time with no issues.
I use prazipro (liquid form), when I have new fish in quarantine to make sure I don't introduce any flukes, for either my pond fish or aquarium fish. Same deal, treat once and repeat 4 days later, no adverse effects, no issues with flukes being introduced into the pond or aquarium after using this in quarantine.
I really like the prazi products, just don't like the price.


Cindy

[Jackie Ramo]

I think the issue Cindy is the advertising leads you to believe that one treatment will do it. For me its 100.00 per treatment so if I have to use it twice, it sure adds up.

I used supraverm for years and one treatment did it everytime. Cheap to as it was free from a friend.

[clm]

I'll have to look at the label when I get home. I have both types, I think they did say to repeat in 4 days, otherwise I don't know where I would have got the idea to otherwise.

Yes it does make it expensive if you have to go around twice. Maybe if you have a pond devoid of plants and other organics, once would be enough, but with planters inside surrounding 3 sides and lillies and lotus pots on the bottom of mine and bog filtration, twice seemed like a safer but more expensive option.

I like the stuff because it's so safe and can be used in colder water. I understand some people with very soft water have had issues with their fish though.

Cindy

[GregBickal]

I just want to know,... has anybody found this stuff doesn't work? .. or is it just me?

If you have skin flukes (live bearers), the treatment protocol on the label might work :HAHA: As for Gill Flukes (egg layers), you need to treat at least once a week for 4 weeks in a row. Eggs can lay dormant for 2 weeks to 7 months depending on temperature, and it takes 10 days to get to adulthood. Depending on your ORP levels, the Prazi could get burned up and not be effective enough to get all parasites.

Since I got the Prazi at the cheap price this year (1,000g for $260), I decided to try a full 8 weeks treatment and see what the result is. I have 12,000 gallons indoors to treat, and over 1500 koi in the 3-6" size and 200 koi in the 12-24" size. I plan on doing 1 treatment a week, for 8 weeks while my koi are inside this winter. I just did my 3rd treatment. If I find parasites anytime after the 8 weeks, I am going to assume one of 2 things, that either my dosage was to low, or that its just plain not possible to erradicate Gill Flukes.

Last year I did 3 treatments of Prazi, still found parasites, then switched to Trichloricide Powder for another 7 treatments. So a total of 10 week treatment. Scrapes showed no parasites for 2 months, however I took koi to sell at the Expo. A week after bringing the koi home, they were flashing and I found the parasites again. So the koi must be under stress again for the parasite to become a problem. From now on, I would not consider myself parasite free unless I went for at least a full year without finding the parasites. Hows that for QT protocol!! The Trichloricide was also more stressful on the koi. Plus at my higher PH 8.4, it doesn't say effective as long. So I would only use it in an emergency situation.

I have tried Supaverm, and it burned the skin of my koi and killed over half of my little koi. I think because of the ORP factor, you must be able to use a medicine in which overdose will not harm the fish.

I have done PP up to 8ppm and it killed koi and left flukes alive.

Last year I disinfected my system outside with Bleech and Chlorine to make sure that I am not re-contaminating in the spring. Is that disinfecting strong enough, I hope so. This year I pumped the pond completely dry, and then plan on disinfecting.

If I still wind up with flukes after this, I will still do a yearly protocol. Keeping the fluke numbers knocked back, specially during the stress of going indoors.

on a side note, I have had gill flukes show up in hatching tanks, were only water and spawning ropes with eggs were placed. So contamination happens pretty easily.

If you have a very clean pond, the flukes never seem to be a problem, but a little ammonia or water quality change, and the flashing begins... Oh what pond life must be like in a pond without flukes :crybaby: Thats what you get when you get real koi I guess :alright:

[Jackie Ramo]

I remember the story of your fluke woes Greg.

I've in the past treated for flukes in spring just as a precaution and never had issues with either flukes or supraverm. This year in late summer I shotgunned the pond with prazi and proform c and noticed no difference in how the fish were acting nor could I find anything on the scope prior or after the treatment. One hopes they go through the winter ok.

[Ian]

I know I have no use for the stuff and Terri is too nice to say so :frisbee: I do not guess when parasites are concerned and scope regular so kill rates are monitored before and after treatments. When you realize it is not working after a few days a few koi go past the point of no return and more get ulcers and secondary infections. Fine line if you are treating to save your fish. Skin flukes can be done in with PP more effective than Prazi at pennies a glass...

Supaverm ...only found it kills flukes in one treatment skin or gill fluke. Never killed a goldfish as some say it does and tested that a few times. Nearly killed a a 5 year old longfin this summer so have a different view of the stuff now.
A big one with supaverm is it is very toxic to use as humans, nerological so nasty things can happen to us and others if not respected as a toxic substance. This should be removed from our hobby to protect ourselves and others as this blackmarket medicine is not controled or informed enough for public use. But I would use it over Prazi hands down...

Flubenol is suppose to have the same effectivness as Superverm but not nearly as toxic. This is somthing to see if it is available in North America (not to my knowledge) that I sure would like to try....well no fluke ever again would be a better option but that is in the same dream my winter beater is ferrari with snow tires :grin:

[Jackie Ramo]

Ian, I researched supraverm before using it and found no warnings for humans other than the standard becareful stupid stuff. Skipper and Buddy and Amber all drank from the pond with no ill effects. Didn't try it myself mind.
Its used as a sheep dip and can even be used on pregnant sheep, so if it was dangerous to humans it would have a huge listing of warnings.

[GregBickal]

Does supaverm affect the gill flukes eggs? I thought it only worked on the adults?

[Terri]

get's 'em all Greg including eggs - in one shot.

BTW you've got mail...

[Ian]

Jackie I think it is a sheep drench, dip is the mint sauce :HAHA:
Jasper k. has an article on it in koi carp mag. Having spoken to him personally about the pro's and cons of supaverm I have a new respect for it. The damage done to our longfin was nerological and some other signs on regular fin koi after treatment. Yes there is warnings...gloves should be enough to tell you it is bad. Not legal in Canada(ya not saying much), it is all blackmarket in a sense as the authorities are clamping down in Europe as well. Restricted use so it is more of a Vet thing with training (MSDS sheets!), edumacation, licence... It is a two part product that would never be split in half, quarters or re-bottled by a trained professional as they know it can not be done correctly. The problem is the stuff works so damn good on flukes.
I believe it can be bought in the states but would hazard to guess its like there beer...watered down
You could relate it to woodstock as the brown acid was no good ....so the rest must have been?

[Jackie Ramo]

Ian, although using any pesticide is dangerous comparing the use of supraverm amounts in ponds to the effects of dipping or drenching a full grown sheep in it is like comparing a ant to a dinasoar.

The dose for my pond is 3 tablespoons, not a vat filled to the brim where I stand all day herding sheep through it. Even there the verdict is still out and more studies being done. I side with the farmers mind, and believe that standing all day handling it as they do would cause all kinds of health problems. Many pics I saw they weren't even wearing protective gear, now that is just dumb.

One should wear gloves for the handling of any poison. Anyone who thinks supraverm isn't a poison shouldn't be using it.

Although I don't doubt one of your fish reacted to the dosage, some people are alergic to peanuts. Or the drug may have expired, been stored incorrectly, combined with other drugs, etc. Thousands of people have used it without any ill effect.

I sure wish that a manufacturer would bottle it properly for fish use. I don't
think they see the profit in the word POND.

BTW there are a few places in Canada that are selling it.

[GregBickal]

get's 'em all Greg including eggs - in one shot.

I used it 3 times, didnt work for me :club: First time was outside in the big pond, all those plants, I doubt anything will work. :doh: Second Time was inside in a controlled environment, flukes nocked back, but not eliminated. Third time was also inside in a controlled environment, slightly higher dosage (in case I was underdosing before), adverse affect. Killed about 500 fingerlings. Still had flukes. :alright:

[Ian]

I don't think anything that is designed to attack the nervous system should be taken lightly. Supaverm is the best as far as fluke meds go and irritating the nervous system of the koi is normal on treatment. Overdose is when the nervous system has been attacked by the Supaverm DILUTED IN WATER!! So a balance on treatment is needed... a dose rate...not tablespoons to big pond teaspoons to small pond that is the reason drugs are regulated! The dose rates we play with are from trial and error from someone else that probably knew how many liters was in the pond to the drop! That is a far cry from the general public who thinks flukes is one species when there is more than 100..
For us it's in the bottle as Jackie suggests with the idiots she had seen with no protection working with the sheep. Diluted in the pond the effects on our exposure would be limited and minor but the product itself is the kicker!!