View Full Version : Something not right
OK here goes. I know the koi will slow down in eating but they have stopped all together. Water temp is sitting at 60F. Everyone looks good, no clamped fins, sores, vaining nothing out of the norm. Just stopped eating. All of them at the same time. Even the pigs of the pond show no interest. Water test are good. Weekly water changes. The only thing different is that I vacced the pond out. Not alot of crap on the bottom, only been up and running 9 weeks now. Have been pulling leaves out once a week that the skimmer might miss. Started feeding spring/fall food but they have had some of that mixed in with thier other food and were eating it. Any ideas what might be up. They did eat some worm on Sunday but no food since friday.
Jackie Ramo
10-02-2006, 08:29 PM
It is difficult to say whether it is just the weather or not. Are they on the bottom? do they come over to you when you come to the pond or do they hide? I have one or two that skip the morning feed but the little guys act like it is high summer. Try a few shrimp andsee, it may be the food.
They are not sitting on the bottom in one area. They swim around but dont come for food. I have seen them up near the surface, but they seem to be weiry of any movement. They have had this food before. I think tommorow I will try the regular food and see if they come to that. Maybe they are not ready for fall food yet.I am feeding only on the evening to keep an eye on them. Did another water test and all the #'s are as steady as they have been all summer.
Terri
10-02-2006, 11:25 PM
Could be you've had a feathered visitor....? Would make me lose my appetite. Try some treats, like Jackie suggests - shrimp, watermelon, peas, etc... could very well be the food (may have gone off?) if all they've eaten since Friday are a few worms.
I've noticed with the temperature swings, lots of those tiny little flies dead in the pond some mornings after a really cool night. Maybe they're getting a little extra natural food and just aren't as hungry. Like Terri says, you may have had a visitor too. Mine have been spooked by something a few times this year, and they'll always come up to eat just as it's getting dark. They seem to feel safer then.
Cindy
Well everyone thanks for the reasurance. Its a food thing !bonk They ate thier regular food just fine to day even came to hand. Pigs as always and then some. Damned picky fish. They really like the food I got from Terrie this summer. I guess i will try the fall food again a little later mixed in.
Jackie Ramo
10-03-2006, 09:41 PM
A bit of garlic powder on the new food should fix things. May have been a combination of a visitor and new food.
could someone check my math please. The fish have been flashing and I wanted to add salt to the pond. If my pond is 3000 gal, I would need to add 30lbs to bring it to 0.1% so over the next three days I would have to add the same amount of salt to bring it to 0.3% Is that correct. Seems like alot of salt.
Terri
10-07-2006, 05:06 PM
Flashing do not necessarily mean your fish have bugs... have you tested the pH & KH? When do you notice the flashing(morning/evening/after feeding/sporatic)? Is it all the fish or just one or two?
From my experience - 0.3% doesn't do much for 'bugs' - ESPECIALLY if added over a 3 day period. If I need to add salt I do it all with in one day (over a few hours) to the level I need the salinity to be.
You'll need about 75 lbs of salt to reach 0.3% in 3000 gallons
yup, lots of salt... have you got a salinity test kit?
Hey Terrie.
Three fish out of five all at different times. Spot at the first of the week, Mr grey and Magma today. Ph is the same as always 7.6-7.8. Kh is at the lower end but no dif then it has been all summer in the little pond as well as the big pond. 10%water changes every week. vacced pond last weekend. Pond temp 60. The top of Flys tail fin is a bit tatered while the bottom is normal. Her tail fin has been good up untill this week.No signs of anything else. Off thier food. They are use to being brought in about now.I have a salt test kit. Pond is at 0.1%. Do fish flash more in colder water if the are not use to it?
Terri
10-07-2006, 11:52 PM
Ok, 3 fish, different times - of what? Day? How often? Once? In succession? And the big question - how 'hard' is the flash? A smooth lazy roll motion or a quick swift flick against something? Also location of the 'itch', mouth area/gill plate - higher than lateral line (dorsal ridge) - lower than lateral line - etc? Have you noticed any fin flicking/twitching? Any 'coughing' - like they are trying to expell something out their gills? Standing with head down and the head twitching along with that 'cough'?
Fish flash for numerous reasons, pH flux is one - and this need not be significant, remember they 'live' in the water and are more intuned with parameters than our test kits will indicate - any slight change in water chem and they know it, some fish are more sensitive than others. Although pH may test as 'stable' that 7.6 to 7.8 read 'margin' is all it takes to irritate the fish. Another is after feeding, a bit of a while anyways, as there maybe a slight ammonia spike (again nothing the test kits will indicate).
Then there's bugs... with the tail fin of Fly being 'tattered' this could indicate parasites, like fluke. Going off food could also mean parasites, generally we would see spitting out of the food... before a complete refusal. Aswell as coughing, head standing, and 'hard' flicking/flashing sproratically/repeatedly.
IF there are parasites at play, and it happens to be fluke - salt would not be my first choice - in the method at which you are adding it.
Ok Here goes,
Spot a few times. Along the side of the pond on the lateral line. Swift Flicking
Mr grey and Magma once bottom of pond more of a softer roll along the lateral line. Time of day seems to be afternoon early eve. No head down. I would say some fin twitching with fly. No food spiting just stopped eating. All of them at one. But Ill watch her more closely to day and see if anyone is coughing. Planning to do a water change today will test to make sure were good there. The only other thing I can see dif is that the water fall has gotten some long green hair alge over the last week and a half.
Terri
10-08-2006, 10:36 AM
The best of clues - time of day :-) O.K. later aft/early eve is typical of a pH shift causing flashing(soft roll).
If Fly is twitching and hard flashing you could pull him and give him a salt bath @ 0.6% - leaving him for 30mins to 1 hour. It could be just pH and he's more sensative to the change... but a salt bath won't 'hurt'.
Has the refusal of food continued since you switched back to their regular staple?
Jackie Ramo
10-08-2006, 06:25 PM
You said the KH was low and this allows the pH to shift, more algae can also cause it to shift. I'd start with the water and once the numbers are stable look to the parasite issue. KH should run around 120 or higher.
Well yesterday I was able to spend most of the day pond side, Did a water change,water test, cleaned filters and watched the fish. I think they are going to drive me crazy. Everyone seemed great. No signs of problems. No coughing.flashing,clamed fins, vaining, flicking. They ate quite well yesterday. Regular food, fall food and an orange. I will try to catch fly to day and give her a salt bath. She is fast, Im slow and I think I need a bigger net :lol: I do have a salt test kit but I think Ill run into a problem here. I dont think the test tube is big enough to hold it all. It take 30 drops to get a reading of 0.3% so 60 drops I think would not fit. Is there a better way to do this. Ex so much salt for 5 gal
Ok I got Fly, Took no more then a couple of mins to catch her. Tail is a little tattered and it looks like she may have some red vaining just starting at the bottom of her tail. Off to set up the bath . will let you know how it turns out
Fly defintly has some light veining in her tail, more pink then red and some on the tips of her fins. She is eating and active. She is now in a 6% salt bath. I managed to catch Spot and I dont see the same on him. I thought he would be good to look at because of all the white. I was able to catch mister big and he looks good as well. I DO need a bigger net for Magma as she jumps out of the other and Mr Grey, well half the time I cant see him. Should I set up the Qt tank and keep her in it or return her to the pond. I do have Debride food here. Would it be a good idea to feed them all some or just Fly.
I have about 20 mins of salt time left. it is now11:28
Jackie Ramo
10-09-2006, 12:30 PM
Since she was easily caught I'd return her to the pond. Less stress for both of you.
Itzi developed some red on fins and tail which has resolved itself into what looks like carp pox... Its been coming and going all summer and driving me crazy. Can you feel any bumps along the red streaks?
Ill check before I put her back in the pond and get back to you in 20mins or so. thanks Jackie
Well shes back in the pond. It does not feel like the area that has the viening is swollen in any way and no bumps, it feels like the rest if the tail and fins. Silm coat feels good as well as far as I can tell. Cant see anything else with the naked eye that would make me be concered.
Jackie Ramo
10-09-2006, 08:46 PM
HOpefully the salt bath fixed whatever. One is surprised how oftenit does work if done soon enough. I see mine flash for any reason and yell "Do you want a salt bath", not sure if the fish understand but the dogs go and hide :lol:
Well I hope it works. Should I have to do it again and if so when. If I yell " Do you want a salt bath" the kids all go running. :lol:
Jackie Ramo
10-10-2006, 10:05 AM
I'd keep an eye on them and if the redness gets worse or stays the same for a few days i'd dunk her again but at a higher level. 0.9 %.
Did you correct the KH?
Kh is sitting steady at 110 like it has all summer. Ill keep an eye on fly and if not better I do her again. Could be fun though were expecting a temp drop this week and rain. Guess whoes getting cold and wet :lol: Now she knows what the nets for she might not be so easy to catch.
Jackie Ramo
10-11-2006, 10:03 AM
Sorry, about the KH when you said the 'low end' I thought it was under 70. Lots of algae can cause a pH to swing even with a good KH.
How are they doing now?
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